What happens when bosons become distinguishable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of making bosons distinguishable in a high-density, low-temperature system that obeys Bose-Einstein statistics. Participants explore whether the equilibrium distribution would shift from a Bose-Einstein distribution to a Boltzmann distribution upon imaging the particles with a high-resolution system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that if bosons are made distinguishable through high-resolution imaging, the equilibrium distribution might change from Bose-Einstein to Boltzmann.
  • Another participant argues that even with high-resolution imaging, it would not be possible to track individual bosons in a dense system, as the measurements would not allow for identifying which particles correspond to which measurements over time.
  • A further response emphasizes that the concept of tracking individual bosons in such a system is fundamentally flawed, as there are no states of a boson gas at high density and low temperature that would allow for individual trajectories.
  • One participant clarifies that their inquiry is a thought experiment and questions whether the act of observing the particles would alter their equilibrium distribution.
  • Another participant reiterates that the issue is not about technical feasibility but rather about the fundamental nature of bosons in such conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the possibility of tracking individual bosons and the implications of such tracking on the equilibrium distribution. The discussion remains unresolved, with competing views on the nature of bosons and the effects of measurement.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions about the feasibility of tracking individual bosons in a dense system and the implications of such tracking on statistical distributions.

Philip Koeck
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Assuming a system of bosons at high density and low temperature so that they obey Bose-Einstein statistics. If one had a high resolution, ultrafast tomographic imaging system that would allow to track every particle in this system and therefore make the particles distinguishable, what would happen to the equlibrium distribution for this system? Would the BE-distribution be replaced by a Boltzmann distribution as soon as the particles are imaged?
 
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Philip Koeck said:
If one had a high resolution, ultrafast tomographic imaging system that would allow to track every particle in this system and therefore make the particles distinguishable

It wouldn't. You would be making position measurements of particles at very short time intervals, yes; but you would not be able to deduce from this data which particles in the measurements at time ##t## corresponded to which particles in the measurements at time ##t + \epsilon##. When physicists talk about being able to "track" particular particles in measurements (for example, in cloud chambers or bubble chambers), they are talking about cases where there are only a small number of particles that are sufficiently separated spatially to be tracked individually. The system you are talking about does not meet that requirement.
 
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PeterDonis said:
It wouldn't. You would be making position measurements of particles at very short time intervals, yes; but you would not be able to deduce from this data which particles in the measurements at time ##t## corresponded to which particles in the measurements at time ##t + \epsilon##. When physicists talk about being able to "track" particular particles in measurements (for example, in cloud chambers or bubble chambers), they are talking about cases where there are only a small number of particles that are sufficiently separated spatially to be tracked individually. The system you are talking about does not meet that requirement.
I am talking about a thought experiment so I don't need to limit myself to what is technically feasible. If one had a sufficiently fast camera, would the act of observing the particles change their equilibrium distribution?
 
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Philip Koeck said:
I am talking about a thought experiment so I don't need to limit myself to what is technically feasible.

It's not a matter of technical feasibility. There are no states of a boson gas at high density and low temperature that correspond to "individual bosons following trackable trajectories". But there would need to be such states for measurements to allow you to track individual bosons.
 
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