What is causing the 0.7V voltage drop across the capacitor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the unexpected 0.7V voltage drop across a capacitor in a circuit involving a 0.45V supply and a 5V supply connected to a load. Participants explore the implications of this behavior, considering the circuit's configuration and the role of various components, including op-amps and resistors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the 5V source is forcing current into the 0.45V supply, which they find counterintuitive as power supplies typically source current.
  • Another participant suggests that the situation resembles a standard Kirchhoff Law problem and hints at calculating an equivalent resistor for the parallel resistors involved.
  • A participant describes the 0.45V as the output of an op-amp buffer, which sets a reference for multiple comparators, and raises the question of why a capacitor causes a 0.7V reading while a resistor yields 0.45V.
  • One participant mentions the complexity added by additional components and diode junctions within the op-amps, suggesting that oscillations could be a factor in the unexpected voltage readings.
  • Another participant confirms that they observed no oscillations when measuring with an oscilloscope, despite the 0.7V reading persisting without any load connected to the op-amp output.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the cause of the 0.7V voltage drop, with multiple competing views on the factors at play, including potential oscillations and the behavior of capacitive versus resistive loads. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the presence of many components and diode junctions in the circuit, which complicates predictions about voltage behavior. There are also references to the need for further observation and measurement to clarify the situation.

likephysics
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I have this arrangement where 0.45V supply and 5v supply are connected to a load (say 6k resistor).
The 5V source is forcing current to flow into the 0.45V supply.

This is a bit counter intuitive. Power supplies usually source current.
Ckt schematic attached.
 

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  • buffer prob.png
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That is a pretty standard Kirchoff Law problem.

Is this homework?

A hint would be to work out an equivalent resistor for all those resistors in parallel.
 
likephysics said:
The 5V source is forcing current to flow into the 0.45V supply. This is a bit counter intuitive. Power supplies usually source current.

What is the magnitude and direction of the current here:

SkL1O.png
 
vk6kro said:
That is a pretty standard Kirchoff Law problem.

Is this homework?

A hint would be to work out an equivalent resistor for all those resistors in parallel.

I wish it was a homework problem. I could have easily accepted current flowing in the other direction than what is expected.

The 0.45V is actually an opamp buffer output(unity gain, non-inverting), which sets the reference for 12 comparators. All the parallel resistors are hysteresis resistors of 12 comparators. Single supply comparator with Vcc=5v. Input at inverting input.
When the load is 0.1uF cap instead of the resistor R2, I get 0.7v across the capacitor.
If I replace the cap with a 1k resistor, I get 0.45v.
I can't figure out why the voltage of buffer is 0.7v when I connect a capacitor.

The capacitive load is not causing the voltage to be 0.7v. I have removed the capacitor and measured the output. It's still the same.
 
gnurf said:
What is the magnitude and direction of the current here:

SkL1O.png

5Amps flowing from right to left (10v to 5v).
 
There are many more components than are shown in the diagram and this includes many diode junctions inside the opamps. So, it gets difficult to predict where odd voltages are coming from.

However, it would be worth observing the voltages at various points with an oscilloscope to check for oscillation in some of the opamps.
This would explain some of the odd behaviour.

A voltage that is 0.45 volts across a resistor but 0.7 volts across a capacitor sounds familiar from power supply design, so it is possible you have some oscillation going on.
 
vk6kro said:
There are many more components than are shown in the diagram and this includes many diode junctions inside the opamps. So, it gets difficult to predict where odd voltages are coming from.

However, it would be worth observing the voltages at various points with an oscilloscope to check for oscillation in some of the opamps.
This would explain some of the odd behaviour.

A voltage that is 0.45 volts across a resistor but 0.7 volts across a capacitor sounds familiar from power supply design, so it is possible you have some oscillation going on.

All the voltages were measure using oscilloscope. I even put the scope in AC coupling to looks for oscillations. I saw none. The probe ground clip was as short as possible.

I also measured without any load across op amp output and ground (just the scope probe). No oscillations, but still 0.7v.
 

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