What is Impedance Inversion in Transmission Line

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of impedance inversion in the context of quarter-wave transformers within transmission lines. Participants seek a precise definition rather than a conceptual explanation, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a precise definition of impedance inversion in quarter-wave transformers, emphasizing the need for clarity without additional explanation.
  • Another participant suggests that definitions may not exist for such concepts and encourages a deeper understanding rather than seeking straightforward answers.
  • A participant explains that impedance inversion relates to the standing wave characteristics of transmission lines, where the apparent impedance is influenced by the line's characteristic impedance and the load impedance.
  • It is noted that for a quarter-wave transformer, the relationship can be expressed as Zin = 1/Zload, which is described as an inversion.
  • Participants discuss the importance of visualizing standing waves and using tools like Smith Charts to understand impedance variations along the transmission line.
  • One participant reflects on their educational experience with transmission lines, indicating that the terminology and concepts can be challenging without a solid foundational vocabulary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a precise definition of impedance inversion. There are multiple perspectives on the complexity of the topic, with some arguing that definitions are elusive and others attempting to clarify the concept through technical explanations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in participants' understanding of the terminology and foundational concepts related to transmission lines, which may hinder their ability to articulate precise definitions.

shayaan_musta
Messages
208
Reaction score
2
Hello to experts!

What is impedance inversion in quarter wave transformer?

I need definition not a concept, not explanation, not description. But a precise and point definition.

Thank you very much.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
See around slide 35 here:

http://www.authorstream.com/Presenta...pt-powerpoint/
These slides are made from the book electronic communication systems by keneddy and davis. I have already that book. I read but didn't understand. That book provides explanation directly without any definition. Let say, if someone ask me to define the what is impedance inversion by quarter-wave transformer then what should be my words to define it?

Did you get what I want sir?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
shayaan_musta said:
These slides are made from the book electronic communication systems by keneddy and davis. I have already that book. I read but didn't understand. That book provides explanation directly without any definition. Let say, if someone ask me to define the what is impedance inversion by quarter-wave transformer then what should be my words to define it?

Did you get what I want sir?

Are you trying to get answers to some weird question paper? There are not 'definitions' for these things. You seem to be seeking an answer and not an understanding, which seems a rather pointless exercise. What do you already know about transmission lines? You need to spend some time reading (and not just skimming for key words) some of the information in Wiki. No pain no gain.

PS that page Jim referred you to tells you plenty. Sometimes you need to accept information in terms other than what you are initially demanding. You have to make an effort at comprehension.
 
The term comes from the standing wave traits of transmission lines, wherein the apparent impedance at any point is a function of two values:
the ratio of the line's characteristic impedance Z0 to its terminating impedance ZLoad
and one's position along the line.The algebra involved is awful looking but i made my way through it decades ago (and changed my minor to Nuclear)


For a quarter wave ,

Zin = 1/Zload

which is an inversion

note that a quarter wave open stub ( Zload = infinite ) behaves as a short circuit , Zin = 0
and that's the inversion.
Now - Smith Charts are the layman's way to solve transmission line problems.
It's not a one-minute task to learn their use.

But here's some reading:
http://www.rle.mit.edu/per/JournalPapers/JPtpejul07p1531.pdf
http://emcesd.com/pdf/zin-eqckt.pdf
http://www.authorstream.com/Present...ission-Lines-li-Entertainment-ppt-powerpoint/ slides 35 and 36 in particular
http://rfic.eecs.berkeley.edu/~niknejad/ee117/pdf/lecture6.pdf page 31
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter-wave_impedance_transformer

So were i asked for a brief description of "Impedance Inversion" i'd say

A poorly chosen name for the well known trait of unmatched transmission lines wherein apparent impedance is a function of both position along the line and mismatch Z0/Zload,
specifically for a 1/4 wave normalized to Z0 : zin = 1/zload
In my high school class we built a transmission line of two parallel wires maybe fifteen feet long and three inches apart. We built an instrumented trolley to ride on the wires with both capacitive and inductive pickups, so we could plot the standing waves of voltage and current.
We studied this 'transformer ' effect but called it by that name , not inversion.
Then we learned to use Smith charts.
So when we studied the same subject in 3rd year EE i had an advantage in visualizing those awful looking algebra equations .

It's important to visualize those standing waves along the line and realize that impedance DOES vary with position, but only if there's a standing wave. Each term in those ornate equations has a physical counterpart. At a point along the line where voltage is low and current high, Z is low and vice versa. That's how you "transform" - pick your spot.

It's not a one-minute subject.
I really urge you to get some Smith Charts and become proficient at using them. Because the phase inverts too. And remember - no mismatch, no standing wave to transform with.

Note to any educators reading this - our 'trolley' experiment really gave a lot of high school boys a head start.

old jim
 
Last edited:
shayaan_musta said:
These slides are made from the book electronic communication systems by keneddy and davis. I have already that book. I read but didn't understand. That book provides explanation directly without any definition. Let say, if someone ask me to define the what is impedance inversion by quarter-wave transformer then what should be my words to define it?

Did you get what I want sir?


When starting out with computers i was frustrated by the authors' habit of defining things in terms of other terms they hadn't bothered to define.

The trouble is it requires a certain amount of vocabulary, that is acquaintance with the basic concepts and the names for the basic principles, to speak meaningfully.

The briefest answer is zin= 1/zload at \Lambda = \frac{1}{4}

which, lacking a decent introduction is pure jabberwocky.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
24
Views
3K
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
33
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K