- #36
Mentat
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Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
So we can't really define "physical"?
Yes we can, we just can't define every word we use afterward. Surely you realize that this is the case with all concepts, when expressed as words.
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
So we can't really define "physical"?
Originally posted by Mentat
Yes we can, we just can't define every word we use afterward. Surely you realize that this is the case with all concepts, when expressed as words.
Originally posted by Nereid
Or, what will you do with the answer(s)?
Just as there have been a number of different answers given to FZ+'s question - with varying degrees of overlap - those answers are of differing degrees of usefulness and satisfaction to the readers.
If you run, or own, a company which makes products for sale, and you employ 'scientists', then your interest in knowing 'what science is' is strongly related to how you can (continue to) make profits by doing the science better.
Similarly, if you run a non-profit organisation, be it governmental or otherwise, a better understanding of 'what science is' may help you meet your goals and objectives more quickly, efficiently, humanely, etc.
And there are surely many other POVs.
So, a few incomplete answers to FZ+'s questions:
1. Is science still just a branch of philosophy?
How does this help me make more profits? reduce the incidence of AIDS?
2. Is knowledge a goal as of itself?
No, it only matters to the extent it can help generate (more) profits, both now and into the future.
3. Can science say anything outside materialism?
Who cares?
4. Can science reach an end?
Say, what?
5. And who is right in how science works? Popper, or Kuhn? Or both/neither?
It doesn't matter, whichever one allows me to spend the ministerial budget better, and head off the next SARS epidemic, I'll read up on his books.
Originally posted by Nereid
"And there are surely many other POVs."
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
All definitions of language are circular; on this point I agree. However, at the deepest level, I am trying to make the case that we can't distinguish between physical and non-physical except by the present methods of investigation. I think "physical" IS a statement of our present level of investigation; not an absolute concept [much less word] that otherwise has meaning. We just develop more complex models that shift the ambiguity from one definition to another. For this reason, to say that we can never measure the non-physical is meaningless. This is no different than saying that we can never measure the imaginary. To say that space-time is physical is equally meaningless except AS a definition.
Originally posted by Jeebus
I'm just going to keep this short and sweet. I would say Science is the way to classify between the knowns and the unknowns, the data from the skewed, the skeptic from the occurring. The rest is just philosophy. Almost quote like, eh?