What is the application of Gauss theorem on a pyramid?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Gauss's theorem to calculate a surface integral over a pyramid defined by specific vertices. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the theorem, the divergence of a vector field, and the boundaries for integration. The conversation includes attempts to resolve discrepancies in calculations and interpretations of the theorem's conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the application of Gauss's theorem to compute the surface integral for a vector field defined over a pyramid.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the boundaries of integration based on the geometry of the pyramid, proposing that the limits depend on the height variable z.
  • There is a discussion about the correct boundaries for the integral, with one participant questioning if the limits should be $0 < x, y < 1 - z$ instead of $0 < x, y < z$.
  • Participants engage in recalculating the integral with the new boundaries, leading to a different result than initially expected.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their calculations and whether the provided answer in the problem statement contains a typo.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the recalculated integral, suggesting a possible error in the original answer provided.
  • There is a discussion about the orientation of the normal vectors in Gauss's theorem, with participants noting that inward-pointing normals would require a sign change in the calculations.
  • One participant proposes that if the normals were outward-pointing, the calculations would need to be adjusted accordingly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of Gauss's theorem and the need to adjust the calculations based on the orientation of the normal vectors. However, there is no consensus on the correctness of the original answer provided in the problem statement, leading to ongoing debate about the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the boundaries of integration and the implications of normal vector orientation on the application of Gauss's theorem. The discussion reflects a reliance on geometric interpretations and the need for careful consideration of assumptions in the calculations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in vector calculus, particularly in the application of Gauss's theorem to complex geometries and surface integrals.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Using Gauss theorem I want to calculate $\iint_{\Sigma}f\cdot NdA$, where $\Sigma$ is the closed boundary surface of the pyramid with vertices $(0,0,0), (1,0,0), (0,1,0), (0,0,1), (1,1,0)$ and $f(x,y,z)=(x^2y, 3y^2z, 9xz^2)$ and the perpendicular vectors $N$ to the inside of the pyramid.

From Gauss theorem we have that $$ \iint_{\Sigma}f\cdot N \ dA=\iiint_{\Omega}\nabla\cdot f \ dV$$ We have that $$\nabla \cdot f=\frac{\partial{(x^2y)}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{(3y^2z)}}{\partial{y}}+\frac{\partial{(9xz^2)}}{\partial{z}}=2xy+6yz+18xz$$

Now we have to find the boundaries for the integral. We have the pyramid

View attachment 7634

So, do we have to find the equation of each line segment of the pyramid? (Wondering)
 

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mathmari said:
Hey! :o

Using Gauss theorem I want to calculate $\iint_{\Sigma}f\cdot NdA$, where $\Sigma$ is the closed boundary surface of the pyramid with vertices $(0,0,0), (1,0,0), (0,1,0), (0,0,1), (1,1,0)$ and $f(x,y,z)=(x^2y, 3y^2z, 9xz^2)$ and the perpendicular vectors $N$ to the inside of the pyramid.

From Gauss theorem we have that $$ \iint_{\Sigma}f\cdot N \ dA=\iiint_{\Omega}\nabla\cdot f \ dV$$ We have that $$\nabla \cdot f=\frac{\partial{(x^2y)}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{(3y^2z)}}{\partial{y}}+\frac{\partial{(9xz^2)}}{\partial{z}}=2xy+6yz+18xz$$

Now we have to find the boundaries for the integral. We have the pyramid

So, do we have to find the equation of each line segment of the pyramid? (Wondering)

Hey mathmari! (Smile)

I think we can make it a little easier for ourselves.
From your picture we can see that x and y are both bounded to a square of which the size depends on z.
For $z=0$ we have $0\le x,y \le 1$.
For $z=\frac 12$ we have $0\le x,y \le \frac 12$.
For $z=1$ we have $0\le x,y \le 0$.

Can we deduce what the integral boundaries should be from that? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
I think we can make it a little easier for ourselves.
From your picture we can see that x and y are both bounded to a square of which the size depends on z.
For $z=0$ we have $0\le x,y \le 1$.
For $z=\frac 12$ we have $0\le x,y \le \frac 12$.
For $z=1$ we have $0\le x,y \le 0$.

Can we deduce what the integral boundaries should be from that? (Wondering)

So, we have that $0\leq x,y\leq z$ and $0\leq z\leq 1$, right?

Then we get the following:

\begin{align*}\iiint_{\Omega}(2xy+6yz+18xz) \ dV&=\int_0^1\int_0^z\int_0^z(2xy+6yz+18xz) \ dxdydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^z\left [x^2y+6yzx+9x^2z\right ]_{x=0}^z \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^z\left (z^2y+6yz^2+9z^3\right )\ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^z\left (7yz^2+9z^3\right )\ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\left [\frac{7}{2}y^2z^2+9z^3y\right ]_{y=0}^z\ dz \\ & = \int_0^1\left (\frac{7}{2}z^4+9z^4\right )\ dz \\ & = \int_0^1\frac{25}{2}z^4\ dz \\ & = \frac{5}{2}\left [ z^5\right ]_0^1 \\ & = \frac{5}{2}\end{align*}

The given answer is $-1,1$. What have I done wrong? (Wondering)
 
Shouldn't it be $0<x,y<1-z$? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Shouldn't it be $0<x,y<1-z$? (Wondering)

Oh yes (Blush) Then we get the folowing:
\begin{align*}\iiint_{\Omega}&(2xy+6yz+18xz) \ dV=\int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\int_0^{1-z}(2xy+6yz+18xz) \ dxdydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\left [x^2y+6yzx+9x^2z\right ]_{x=0}^{1-z} \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\left [(1-z)^2y+6yz(1-z)+9(1-z)^2z\right ] \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\left [(1-2z+z^2)y+6yz(1-z)+9(1-2z+z^2)z\right ] \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\left [y-2zy+z^2y+6yz-6yz^2+9z-18z^2+9z^3\right ] \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\int_0^{1-z}\left [y+4yz-5yz^2+9z-18z^2+9z^3\right ] \ dydz \\ & = \int_0^1\left [\frac{y^2}{2}+2y^2z-\frac{5}{2}y^2z^2+9zy-18z^2y+9z^3y\right ]_{y=0}^{1-z} \ dz \\ & = \int_0^1\left [\frac{(1-z)^2}{2}+2(1-z)^2z-\frac{5}{2}(1-z)^2z^2+9z(1-z)-18z^2(1-z)+9z^3(1-z)\right ] \ dz \\ & = \int_0^1\left [\frac{1-2z+z^2}{2}+2(1-2z+z^2)z-\frac{5}{2}(1-2z+z^2)z^2+9z-9z^2-18z^2+18z^3+9z^3-9z^4\right ] \ dz \\ & =\int_0^1\left [\frac{1}{2}-z+\frac{z^2}{2}+2z-4z^2+2z^3-\frac{5}{2}z^2+5z^3-\frac{5}{2}z^4+9z-27z^2+27z^3-9z^4\right ] \ dz \\ & = \int_0^1\left [\frac{1}{2}-\frac{23}{2}z^4+10z-33z^2+34z^3\right ] \ dz \\ & = \left [\frac{1}{2}z-\frac{23}{10}z^5+5z^2-11z^3+\frac{34}{4}z^4\right ]_0^1 \\ & = \frac{1}{2}-\frac{23}{10}+5-11+\frac{34}{4}\\ & = \frac{7}{10}\end{align*}

Is everything correct? (Wondering)

Is at the given answer a typo or have I done something wrong? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Is everything correct?

Is at the given answer a typo or have I done something wrong?

Everything looks correct to me. (Nod)
And W|A confirms that your calculation of the integral is correct as well.
So I think there is indeed a mistake in the given answer. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Everything looks correct to me. (Nod)
And W|A confirms that your calculation of the integral is correct as well.
So I think there is indeed a mistake in the given answer. (Thinking)

Great! Thank you! (Happy)
 
What would we do if the perpendicular vectors $N$ would direct to the outside of the pyramid? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
What would we do if the perpendicular vectors $N$ would direct to the outside of the pyramid?

Oh! I overlooked that before! (Wait)

Gauss's theorem assumes that the perpendicular vectors are oriented outward.
From wiki:
The closed manifold ∂V is quite generally the boundary of V oriented by outward-pointing normals, and n is the outward pointing unit normal field of the boundary ∂V.


Since the problem statement says that they are oriented inward, it means that we have to take the opposite. (Thinking)
 
  • #10
I like Serena said:
Oh! I overlooked that before! (Wait)
Gauss's theorem assumes that the perpendicular vectors are oriented outward.
Since the problem statement says that they are oriented inward, it means that we have to take the opposite.

So, we have to write a "-" everywhere and so we get $-0.7$, right? (Wondering)
 
  • #11
mathmari said:
So, we have to write a "-" everywhere and so we get $-0.7$, right?

Yep. (Nod)
 
  • #12
I like Serena said:
Yep. (Nod)

Thank you! (Sun)
 

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