What is the best shape for a soccer goal post?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison of two shapes of soccer goal posts: square and circular. The original poster explores the probabilities of a soccer ball going into the goal based on the shape of the post and the angles at which the ball strikes the post.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the probability of a goal based on the geometry of the posts and the angles of incidence. Some participants question the assumptions made regarding the angles and the nature of the ball's trajectory. Others suggest that the reasoning may be incomplete due to the complexities of angles and the distribution of incoming shots.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing various perspectives on the assumptions and reasoning presented. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to consider different angles and the implications of hitting corners versus sides of the posts. There is no explicit consensus on the best approach or the validity of the original poster's reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the assumptions about the ball's motion, such as it being a point mass and moving without spin, may affect the analysis. There are also discussions about the legality of certain angles of incidence in the context of soccer rules.

  • #151
kshitij said:
the distance of the point from origin will also be the distance of the line from origin as the line is perpendicular to the line joining origin and that point so you don't need to look at ##d## again since you already fixed that while picking the point
So you are saying the point you are picking in the semicircle is the point of closest approach to the origin.
That's not what you wrote in post #139. There it was the point the shot was taken from.
You cannot have it both ways. For some legal shots the point of closest approach to the origin would be behind the goal line.
 
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  • #152
Given that S=R, the only effective difference between square and round is corner A in thread post #105, the one where the side facing the pitch meets the side facing the goalmouth.
For a shot taken from wide of the goal, it creates an obstruction, reducing the chance of a goal; for a shot taken from in front of the goal it acts as a sweeper, helping to deflect the ball into the goal.
Since the posts are relatively narrow, it is very reasonable to take d as uniformly distributed, so the major question is whether the striker is more likely to be wide of the goal or in front of it. If wide, round makes the task easier, if in front, square wins.

Edit: in practice, a striker wide of the goalmouth might aim for the far end of the goal in order to avoid the keeper. In that case square wins again.
 
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  • #153
haruspex said:
So you are saying the point you are picking in the semicircle is the point of closest approach to the origin.
That's not what you wrote in post #139. There it was the point the shot was taken from.
You cannot have it both ways. For some legal shots the point of closest approach to the origin would be behind the goal line.
What I wanted to do was to include all the paths of the ball that we allowed in our probability calculation, i.e., all possible straight lines whose perpendicular distance from origin is ##\leq D##

But now I see that all possible paths that intersect the semi-circle of radius ##D## would not include some paths of the ball so now I say that instead of the semicircle, let us assume a complete circle.

So, I believe that now we can say that the probability that we calculated is,

"all possible paths of the ball (straight lines) that intersect a circle of radius ##D## has a probability ##
P(square)=\dfrac{D\pi-2S}{2D\pi}=P(round)=\dfrac{D\pi-2R}{2D\pi}## of going in the back of the net if the other post is at a very large distance to the left of the post whose dimensions we considered"


Edit: the paths of the ball are bidirectional, i.e., for any path that intersects the circle, the direction of the shot is assumed such that it doesn't come from behind the goal line.

Edit II: the distance of paths of the ball from origin is uniformly distributed in ##(-D,D)##
 
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  • #154
kshitij said:
all possible paths of the ball (straight lines)
But that does not specify the probability distribution. To use the result obtained earlier you need to specify that the distance from the path to the origin is uniformly distributed over the possible values.
 
  • #155
haruspex said:
But that does not specify the probability distribution. To use the result obtained earlier you need to specify that the distance from the path to the origin is uniformly distributed over the possible values.
That is, add the assumption that ##d## is uniformly distributed in ##(-D,D)## then it should be fine right?
 
  • #156
haruspex said:
Edit: in practice, a striker wide of the goalmouth might aim for the far end of the goal in order to avoid the keeper. In that case square wins again.
u/gegenpressing91 on reddit does some beautiful illustrations like the one below,
5uix4zd62u461.png

Here we clearly see that for wider shots, he did aim to the opposite post so your assumption is right
 
  • #157
kshitij said:
That is, add the assumption that ##d## is uniformly distributed in ##(-D,D)## then it should be fine right?

Yes.
 
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  • #158
haruspex said:
Yes.
I would like to thank you for your patient and insightful responses throughout this thread and the other one :smile:

As mentioned earlier this was not any homework question of significance but rather something I casually made up on my own and yet you were committed to help me throughout this which I think is incredible!
 
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