What is the concept of area and definite integration in advanced mathematics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of area and its relationship to definite integration in advanced mathematics. Participants explore definitions of area, the properties that any notion of area should satisfy, and the implications of non-measurable sets on defining area through integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a proof that connects area to the definite integral of a function.
  • Another participant questions the ability to provide a proof without a clear definition of "area."
  • A definition of area is proposed, outlining properties that any notion of area should have, including conditions for rectangles, subsets, and disjoint unions.
  • It is noted that there exist "non-measurable" sets for which area cannot be defined, indicating limitations in the general definition of area.
  • A participant expresses confusion about advanced mathematical notation and seeks clarification on specific terms, such as the U-symbol and the concept of two-dimensional sets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a singular definition of area, and multiple competing views regarding the properties and implications of area exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the complexities of defining area in the context of integration.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the absence of a universally accepted definition of area, the existence of non-measurable sets, and the reliance on specific mathematical properties that may not be applicable in all cases.

DJ24
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What is the proof that proves:

A = the definite integral of a function with upper limit a and lower limit b. ?
 
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What definition would you like to use for "area" ?
 
The one that is used most often.
 
You see a problem with giving you a proof that the integral gives the area if you can't give a general definition of area, don't you?

"Area" of a two dimensional set is a function that assigns to a set, X, a number, A(X), such that.
1) If X is a rectangle with side lengths h and w, its area is A(X)= hw.
2) If X is a subset of Y, then A(X)\le A(Y).
3) if X and Y are have no points in common, except possibly on their boundaries, then A(X\cup Y)= A(x)+ A(y).

Those are the properties that any notion of "area" should have. Of course to make it a true definition of "area" we would have to show that, for any set X, there exist a specific A(X)- and that's not true. There exist "non-measurable" sets. In terms of two-dimensional sets, that says that no matter how you tried to "define" area, there will be sets for which "area" cannot be defined (not that they have 0 area, that no number, not even 0, can be assigned to their area will violate some of tose conditions). Given that, and that we can prove that the integral, when it exists, satisfies those three conditions, the definition of area that "is used most often" is the integral.
 
Apparently, the definition of area is too sophisticated to be given in any standard calculus textbook.

I am unaware of most advanced mathematical notation and would like to know what the U-symbol means. Also, is a two-dimensional set a set of ordered pairs (x,y) where X may be a region? What are non-measurable sets?

I suppose I am rather looking for a (more precise) explanation.
 

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