What is the correct definition of energy in relativistic systems?

Hyperreality
Messages
201
Reaction score
0
If a particle is in a ideal inertial system, with only potential energy and kinetic energy present, then

K + U = E

If we take in account of the relativistic effect, we get

\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})}}-mc^2+U=E

If we differentiate both side with respect to its velocity,

\frac{mv}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})^3}}+dU/dv=0

So far, I'm fairly sure my derivations are correct, for I use the last result to derive the "relativistc" force F=ma x gamma^3.

Now, for the next bit, if I solve for U using indefinite integral I ended with
U=\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})}}+C.

What is C?

If I did it by definite integral from 0 to v, I ended with the relativistic kinetic energy. Which is right??
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hyperreality said:
If a particle is in a ideal inertial system, with only potential energy and kinetic energy present, then

K + U = E

If we take in account of the relativistic effect, we get

\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})}}-mc^2+U=E

If we differentiate both side with respect to its velocity,

\frac{mv}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})^3}}+dU/dv=0

So far, I'm fairly sure my derivations are correct, for I use the last result to derive the "relativistc" force F=ma x gamma^3.

Now, for the next bit, if I solve for U using indefinite integral I ended with
U=\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})}}+C.

What is C?

If I did it by definite integral from 0 to v, I ended with the relativistic kinetic energy. Which is right??

The prob. is not what C is.
You should write:
\frac{mv}{\sqrt{(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})^3}}+dU/dv=dE/dv

blue
 
Yes, I should.

But note that E is the total energy of the system, so it is a contant,

ie, dE/dv = 0.
 
Be careful, you must be precise with your definitions or you will run into problems.

Energy is more appropriately defined as the functional composition of the Hamiltonian with the coordinates/momenta of the system as a function of time i.e. E(t)=H(q(t),p(t)). This is, by conservation laws, constant, but this is not what you had in your equation. You had the Hamiltonian, which indeed has dependence on momentum (and thus velocity) otherwise the particle (by Hamilton's equations) would be at rest.

In your instance the Hamiltonian is defined as H(q,p) = K(p) + U(q,p) where K(p) and U(q,p) are the kinetic and potential energies for a particle at position q with momentum p.

However, you did something slightly correct and interesting, which is that potential energy can never be found absolutely. You can only ever hope to measure/calculate differences in potential across space, thus all potentials can have a (spatial) constant added to them and the observable physics of the system in question will not change.
 
OK, so this has bugged me for a while about the equivalence principle and the black hole information paradox. If black holes "evaporate" via Hawking radiation, then they cannot exist forever. So, from my external perspective, watching the person fall in, they slow down, freeze, and redshift to "nothing," but never cross the event horizon. Does the equivalence principle say my perspective is valid? If it does, is it possible that that person really never crossed the event horizon? The...
In this video I can see a person walking around lines of curvature on a sphere with an arrow strapped to his waist. His task is to keep the arrow pointed in the same direction How does he do this ? Does he use a reference point like the stars? (that only move very slowly) If that is how he keeps the arrow pointing in the same direction, is that equivalent to saying that he orients the arrow wrt the 3d space that the sphere is embedded in? So ,although one refers to intrinsic curvature...
So, to calculate a proper time of a worldline in SR using an inertial frame is quite easy. But I struggled a bit using a "rotating frame metric" and now I'm not sure whether I'll do it right. Couls someone point me in the right direction? "What have you tried?" Well, trying to help truly absolute layppl with some variation of a "Circular Twin Paradox" not using an inertial frame of reference for whatevere reason. I thought it would be a bit of a challenge so I made a derivation or...
Back
Top