What is the Limit of This Complex Function as z Approaches i?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the limit of the complex function ## \frac {z^2 + i}{z^4 - 1} ## as ## z ## approaches ## i ##. Participants explore various methods to evaluate the limit, including polynomial division and Taylor expansions, while addressing potential errors in the problem statement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over the limit being stated as ## -0.5 ## and suggests a different approach might be needed.
  • Another participant proposes using a Taylor expansion for both the numerator and denominator around ## z = i ##, noting that they do not arrive at a finite limit.
  • Several participants question whether there is a typo in the problem, suggesting the numerator should be ## z^2 + 1 ## instead of ## z^2 + i ##.
  • One participant claims to have computed the limit using polynomial division and concluded it does not exist.
  • Another participant mentions using Wolfram to compute the limit and obtaining ## -1 ##, which adds to the confusion regarding the correct limit.
  • There is a suggestion that setting ## z = i ## directly in the original expression indicates the limit does not exist, as it leads to a form of ## (-1 + i)/0 ##.
  • Some participants agree that the expression should be corrected to ## \frac{z^2 + 1}{z^4 - 1} ## for further analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct limit or the validity of the original problem statement. Multiple competing views exist regarding the correct form of the function and the resulting limit.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of potential typos in the problem statement, and participants express uncertainty about the correct approach to take. The discussion includes various methods of analysis, but no definitive resolution is reached.

TheCanadian
Messages
361
Reaction score
13
I am trying to find the limit of ## \frac {z^2 + i}{z^4 - 1} ## as ## z ## approaches ##i##.

I've broken the solution down to: ##\frac {(z + \sqrt{i})(z - \sqrt{i})}{(z+1)(z-1)(z+i)(z-i)} ## but this does not seem to get me anywhere. The solution says ## -0.5 ## but I don't quite understand how they arrived at that answer. I may be missing something very obvious, but any thoughts on how I can change my approach?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I wonder if the book made a mistake or you copied the problem incorrectly. The approach I would recommend is a Taylor expansion of the denominator about z=i and similarly for the numerator. I could have miscalculated, but I don't get a finite limit. I think the numerator should say z^2+1. ..editing... Doing that does give the book's answer.
 
Last edited:
Charles Link said:
I wonder if the book made a mistake or you copied the problem incorrectly. The approach I would recommend is a Taylor expansion of the denominator about z=i and similarly for the numerator. I could have miscalculated, but I don't get a finite limit. I think the numerator should say z^2+1. ..editing... Doing that does give the book's answer.
And I made a polynomial division of the inverse quotient and got ##0##.
 
fresh_42 said:
And I made a polynomial division of the inverse quotient and got ##0##.
editing =I missed the term "inverse quotient". But make the numerator ## z^2+1 ## and you should get the book's answer. I think it's a typo somewhere i.e. either the OP copied it wrong or the book has a typo.
 
Charles Link said:
Can you supply a little more detail and/or try computing it again? z^4-1 is in the denominator.
Yes. I divided ##(z^4-1) : (z^2+i) = z^2 - i - \frac{2}{z^2+i}## which is ##0## for ##z=i##. That is to say you were right, the limit in question doesn't exists.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link
Charles Link said:
I wonder if the book made a mistake or you copied the problem incorrectly. The approach I would recommend is a Taylor expansion of the denominator about z=i and similarly for the numerator. I could have miscalculated, but I don't get a finite limit. I think the numerator should say z^2+1. ..editing... Doing that does give the book's answer.

That is possible. My e-copies are slightly blurry, but I've attached the problem and solution. I will admit the limit of ##z## isn't very clear in the image, but that seems to be an i based on previous questions.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 10.56.22 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 10.56.22 PM.png
    681 bytes · Views: 433
  • Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 10.56.05 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 10.56.05 PM.png
    6.1 KB · Views: 459
TheCanadian said:
That is possible. My e-copies are slightly blurry, but I've attached the problem and solution. I will admit the limit of ##z## isn't very clear in the image, but that seems to be an i based on previous questions.
It needs to be ## z^2+1 ## in the numerator.
 
Charles Link said:
It needs to be ## z^2+1 ##.

Then the problem is resolved. Likely just a typo in the book—thanks for pointing it out.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link
However, I've typed it into Wolfram and got -1 as the result. They made a Taylor expansion at i.
I'm confused.
 
  • #10
fresh_42 said:
However, I've typed it into Wolfram and got -1 as the result. They made a Taylor expansion at i.
I'm confused.
Take a few minutes and recompute it... The denominator gives (using ## f(z)=z^4-1 ##) ## \ ## ## f(z)=f(i)+f'(i)(z-i)+...=0+4z^3 (z-i) +... =4(i^3)(z-i) ## Meanwhile ## z^2+1 ## factors as ## (z+i)(z-i) ##. (Could do Taylor series in numerator also, but this is quicker.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: TheCanadian and fresh_42
  • #11
TheCanadian said:
I am trying to find the limit of ## \frac {z^2 + i}{z^4 - 1} ## as ## z ## approaches ##i##.

I've broken the solution down to: ##\frac {(z + \sqrt{i})(z - \sqrt{i})}{(z+1)(z-1)(z+i)(z-i)} ## but this does not seem to get me anywhere. The solution says ## -0.5 ## but I don't quite understand how they arrived at that answer. I may be missing something very obvious, but any thoughts on how I can change my approach?

Limits are only tricky if they result in something of the form ##0/0## or ##\pm \infty/\pm \infty##. In this case, you simply set ##z = i## to get something of the form ##(-1 + i)/0## and you know the limit does not exist without the need for further analysis.
 
  • #12
PeroK said:
Limits are only tricky if they result in something of the form ##0/0## or ##\pm \infty/\pm \infty##. In this case, you simply set ##z = i## to get something of the form ##(-1 + i)/0## and you know the limit does not exist without the need for further analysis.
The problem on this one is the OP had the answer the book gave, and it did not agree with what we were computing. Now that we believe it should read ## (z^2+1)/(z^4-1) ## , a simple factoring of the denominator ## (z^2+1)/((z^2-1)(z^2+1)) ## is probably the quickest approach. The Taylor series also worked well for this one.
 
  • #13
Charles Link said:
The problem on this one is the OP had the answer the book gave, and it did not agree with what we were computing. Now that we believe it should read ## (z^2+1)/(z^4-1) ## , a simple factoring of the denominator ## (z^2+1)/((z^2-1)(z^2+1)) ## is probably the quickest approach. The Taylor series also worked well for this one.

Yes, but with the question as originally quoted there was not a need for any analysis. Nor was any analysis going to change the simple answer that could be obtained by setting ##z = i## in the original expression.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K