What is the relationship between a comet's velocity and the shape of its orbit?

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    Comet Orbit Shape
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between a comet's velocity and the shape of its orbit, specifically exploring how different velocities correspond to elliptical, parabolic, and hyperbolic trajectories. Participants delve into the underlying gravitational principles and energy considerations that dictate these orbital shapes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the shape of a comet's orbit is determined by its velocity relative to the escape velocity, with specific conditions for elliptical, parabolic, and hyperbolic orbits based on the equation v < sqrt(2GM/p), v = sqrt(2GM/p), and v > sqrt(2GM/p), respectively.
  • Others argue that the sum of kinetic and potential energy determines the orbit type, suggesting that a positive total energy leads to a hyperbola, while a negative total energy results in an ellipse.
  • It is noted that the formulas for orbit shapes apply specifically at the moment the comet is at a vertex, and the escape velocity is based on the distance from the gravitational source.
  • A participant questions why a comet moving at escape velocity has a parabolic orbit, while a faster velocity results in a hyperbolic orbit, seeking clarification on the distinction between these two cases.
  • One participant explains that a parabola can be viewed as a limiting case of a hyperbola and an ellipse, depending on the eccentricity and the angle between the asymptotes.
  • Another contribution presents the equation for a conic section, indicating that the gravitational force can be expressed in terms of the distance and eccentricity, although it acknowledges the complexity introduced by the mass of the comet and other celestial bodies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between velocity and orbit shape, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons for the distinctions between parabolic and hyperbolic orbits. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of energy considerations and the specific conditions that lead to different orbital shapes.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of escape velocity and the assumptions made about the mass of the comet and other celestial bodies, which may complicate the analysis of orbits.

4everphysics
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Hello.

I read from a calculus book (Larson) that
shape of comet's orbit is determined by its velocity in following way.

Ellipse if v < sqrt(2GM/p)
Parabola if v = sqrt(2GM/p)
Hyperbola if v > sqrt(2GM/p)
where p is the distance between one vertex and one focus of the comet's orbit.

I would like to understand how this is so.
Could you please help me? Thank you.

It must have something to do with gravitational force (GMm/r^2)
and (mv^2)/r,

but the way to approach it is not apparent to me.

Thank you.

Sincerely
 
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If the sum of the kinetic and potential energy is bigger than 0, the object can escape and you get a hyperbola, if it's smaller than you get an ellipse.

Potential energy is -mMG/r here, so it's zero at infinity.
 
Note that you can apply this formula at any point of its trajectory. It always compares kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) with the gravitational potential energy (-GMm/r) with the distance r between comet and star.
 
4everphysics said:
Ellipse if v < sqrt(2GM/p)
Parabola if v = sqrt(2GM/p)
Hyperbola if v > sqrt(2GM/p)
where p is the distance between one vertex and one focus of the comet's orbit.
These formulas only apply at the moment the comet is at a vertex (the sun would be at a focus). Normally escape velocity is based on distance from the object creating the gravitational field:

ve = sqrt(2GM/r)

where in this case, r is the distance between the sun and the comet.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for reminding me everyone, it has been long since I took my mechanics class.
Right, the escape velocity can be computed by

potential energy + kinetic energy = 0

which makes
v = sqrt(2GM/r).

But, what causes the difference between hyperbola and parabola?
When comet is moving at exactly escape velocity, why does its orbit look like parabola?
and look like hyperbola when it is moving at an even faster velocity?

Thank you.
 
The parabola is the "limit" of a hyperbola for an angle of 0 between the two asymptotes, and it is the "limit" of an ellipse for an eccentricity of 1.

This is easier to see if you look at them as conic sections.@rcgldr: As stated in my post, you have to use the distance between the two objects in the general case. In one vertex, this distance is equivalent to the distance between vertex and star, of course.
This neglects the mass of the comet - but if that should be taken into account, other planets are even more important and it gets messy.
 
After a bit of work, the gravitational inverse square force reduces to
r = \frac{p}{1+e\cos(\theta-\theta_0)}
That's the equation for a conic section (a circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola) with a focus at the origin.
 

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