What is the Role of Sub-Particles in the Existence of Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of sub-particles in the existence of matter, particularly focusing on concepts like virtual particles, vacuum states, and the nature of subatomic particles as described by the standard model. Participants explore theoretical implications and interpretations related to quantum mechanics and particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that matter could be viewed as an attempt of sub-particles to remain present in a quantum state, questioning the nature of particles in a vacuum.
  • Another participant challenges the concept of "sub particles," asking for clarification on what is meant by the term.
  • A claim is made that virtual particles, often discussed in popular science, are not real, and that observable matter is composed of real particles.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between energy states and particle density, proposing that particles condensing out of the vacuum could lower the ground energy state.
  • A particle physicist expresses confusion over a proposed relationship between real and virtual particles, indicating a lack of clarity in the explanation provided.
  • A quote from a particle physicist is shared, discussing the vacuum state and the potential for a nonzero density of real particles under certain conditions.
  • Another participant asserts that there is no attractive interaction strong enough to cause a significant condensation of particles into the vacuum state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and existence of virtual particles, the interpretation of vacuum states, and the implications of particle interactions. There is no consensus on these topics, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and may depend on definitions of terms like "virtual particles" and "vacuum state." The discussion includes unresolved technical details and assumptions that are not fully explored.

Marco DF
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Hi everyone!

Here the question(s).

In the vacuum, the sub particles pop up and down (annihilation).
If this is right, we can tell that the all matter is the attempt of sub particles to remain alive?

so, is my glass of wine a desperate attempt of electrons, quarks, and all the other particles, to stay present here and now in this quantum state?

cheers!
 
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What exactly is this “sub particle” that you are talking about?

Zz.
 
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Marco DF said:
In the vacuum, the sub particles pop up and down (annihilation).
There is no such process. You might think of virtual particles which you can frequently find in popular science description, but virtual particles are not real (that's why they are called virtual).
The matter you can see is made out of real particles.
 
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ZapperZ said:
What exactly is this “sub particle” that you are talking about?

Zz.
Hi ZapperZ,
I meant the subatomic particles described by the standard model... is it wrong to call "sub particles"?
 
Marco DF said:
Hi ZapperZ,
I meant the subatomic particles described by the standard model... is it wrong to call "sub particles"?

It is wrong to describe these particles they way YOU did!

Zz.
 
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ZapperZ said:
It is wrong to describe these particles they way YOU did!

Zz.
I'm almost happy to hear that! Mean that i think in wrong way, and i need to fix this. May i ask you what can i read to understand the right way to describe these particles?
 
Marco DF said:
I'm almost happy to hear that! Mean that i think in wrong way, and i need to fix this. May i ask you what can i read to understand the right way to describe these particles?

Read the responses that you have received.

Zz.
 
Marco DF said:
Hi everyone!

Here the question(s).

In the vacuum, the sub particles pop up and down (annihilation).
If this is right, we can tell that the all matter is the attempt of sub particles to remain alive?

so, is my glass of wine a desperate attempt of electrons, quarks, and all the other particles, to stay present here and now in this quantum state?

cheers!

If you substitute real particles and seeking lowest energy ground state for virtual particles and attempting to stay alive, I think there is a relationship something like what you are pondering... a relationship between energy and density of particles that attract each other in which the energy ground state with particles is lower than the empty vacuum energy ground state... the particles condensing out of the vacuum lowers the ground energy state.

Maybe someone that recognizes my poor description can clarify the principle.
 
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bahamagreen said:
If you substitute real particles and seeking lowest energy ground state for virtual particles and attempting to stay alive, I think there is a relationship something like what you are pondering... a relationship between energy and density of particles that attract each other in which the energy ground state with particles is lower than the empty vacuum energy ground state... the particles condensing out of the vacuum lowers the ground energy state.

Maybe someone that recognizes my poor description can clarify the principle.
As a particle physicist: I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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  • #11
"Normally the "vacuum state", which is the state of minimum energy of a quantum system, is that state in which one expects to find no real particles, because the energy of the system increases as you add real massive particles. If the interactions between the particles are attractive, one might imagine that the minimum energy configuration is not one with an absence of real particles, but rather one in which a nonzero density of real particles "condenses" into this vacuum state."
Krauss, particle physicist
 
  • #12
There is no interaction attractive enough to make that happen. The Higgs potential could be in a metastable state and decay eventually, but that is a different topic.
 
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