What is the smallest horizontal force needed to move the crate upward?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the smallest horizontal force required to move a crate upward, which is held against a wedge by a spring. The problem involves concepts from mechanics, including forces, friction, and equilibrium conditions. Participants are analyzing a homework problem that includes specific parameters such as spring constant, mass, and angles.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculated the normal force from the spring and the weight of the crate to be 397N, which they believe is correct.
  • Another participant confirmed that the spring and weight combination is approximately 397.1N, using the standard acceleration due to gravity.
  • There is a mention of the need for the answer to be within a certain percentage range for it to be accepted as correct, indicating some tolerance in the solution.
  • A participant agrees with the equations of motion presented by the original poster, suggesting that the approach is mathematically sound.
  • One participant points out that the force of static friction was neglected in the original calculations, which could significantly affect the result for the horizontal force needed.
  • The original poster expresses confusion over their answer being marked incorrect and plans to consult their professor for clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculations of forces but disagree on the inclusion of static friction and its impact on the final answer. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct value of the horizontal force needed.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the effects of static friction and the exact conditions under which the crate moves. The calculations depend on the accuracy of the angles and the interpretation of the forces acting on the system.

Feodalherren
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Homework Statement


The crate shown is held against wedge B by a spring. The spring is 96.0% of its original uncompressed lengthl=2.75m, and the spring constant is given ask=1650N/m. The coefficient of static friction at all contacting surfaces is μs=0.150. The mass of the crate is m=22.0kg . The angle is θ=11.0∘. Neglect the mass of the wedge. Assume the crate only moves in the y direction and that wedge A cannot move.
8.3_main.jpg

Determine the magnitude of the smallest horizontal force P that is necessary to begin moving the crate upward.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I found the normal from the spring and the weight of the box to be 397N (this is known to be the correct value).

Since A can't move, we can draw a FBD of block B.

Untitled.png

I noticed that I drew the line for the 79 degree angle for f wrong. ignore it. The 79 degrees is supposed to be along the Y-axis. The number is still correct.

Sum of the forces in X = 0 = -P + Ncos79 + .15Nsin79

Sum of the forces in Y=0=-397+NSin79 - .15Ncos79

Using a matrix to solve for P we get P=141 N which is incorrect. I've ran out of ideas here. Every way I do it I seem to get the same answer but it supposedly incorrect.
 
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You have substituted your integer answer into the equations and confirmed it's a perfect fit?

Do you know what the correct answer is supposed to be?

I make the spring & weight combo to be 397.1N (using g=9.8 m/s²).
 
Last edited:
Yes. It's close enough. The answer doesn't need to be exact. It's 3 sig-figs and within 5 or 10 % and the program will let you know the answer.
 
My working agrees with your pair of ∑ f[/size] equations.
 
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Very strange... I will ask my professor tomorrow. Thank you, Sir.
 
You forgot the force of static friction between the crate and block B, opposing block B moving to the left (it points to the right at the top of the block). When you sum forces in the x this will change your answer slightly for F which actually changes a lot in your answer. Hope this helps anyone else who is looking to this for help!
 

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