What is the variation of Ifdahl's solution to finding the value(s) of $x$?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the value(s) of \( x \) in the equation \( \sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}+1}+\sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}}=x \). Participants explore variations on Ifdahl's solution, including transformations and algebraic manipulations.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the original equation and seeks to find the value(s) of \( x \).
  • Another participant introduces a substitution \( y = x + \frac{1}{x} \) and derives a relationship involving \( \sqrt{y+1} \) and \( \sqrt{y} \).
  • The transformation leads to a quadratic equation \( 4(y+1) = y^2 \), with solutions \( y = 2(1\pm\sqrt{2}) \), prompting a discussion on the validity of the negative solution.
  • The participant concludes that only the larger solution \( x = 1+\sqrt{2} + \sqrt{2(1+\sqrt{2})} \) approximately equals \( 4.6116 \) satisfies the original equation, as noted by Ifdahl.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not explicitly agree on the validity of the negative solution for \( y \), and there is no consensus on the overall approach or the implications of the derived solutions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the validity of squaring both sides of equations and the implications of discarding negative solutions without fully exploring their potential relevance.

Albert1
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$\sqrt {x+\dfrac {1}{x}+1}+\sqrt {x+\dfrac {1}{x}}=x $

find the value(s) of $x$
 
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My attempt:

Given the equation:

\[\sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}+1}+\sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}} = x\: \: \:\: \: \: \: \: \: \; (1)\]

Let $y = x+\frac{1}{x}$.

Squaring the given equation:

\[\left ( \sqrt{y+1}+\sqrt{y} \right )^2 = x^2 \Rightarrow 2y + 1+2\sqrt{y^2+y}=x^2 \]

Squaring again:

\[\Rightarrow 4(y^2+y)=\left ( x^2-2y-1 \right )^2\] \[\Rightarrow 4y^2+4y = 4y^2+4y-4x^2y+x^4-2x^2+1 \] \[ \Rightarrow 4x^2y -x^4+2x^2-1=0\]

The last equation is a polynomial of 4th degree:

\[4x^2\left ( x+\frac{1}{x} \right )-x^4+2x^2-1 = 0 \] \[ \Rightarrow x^4-4x^3-2x^2-4x+1 = 0\]

This looks a lot like $(x-1)^4$ except for the midterm ($-2x^2$), so we´ll have to correct with $-8x^2$. The polynomial then has the form:\[(x-1)^4-8x^2 = 0\]

Taking the square root of the identity: $(x-1)^4=8x^2$ leads to:

\[x^2-(2+\sqrt{8})x+1 = 0\]

There are two positive roots \[x = \frac{1}{2}\left ( 2+\sqrt{8} \pm \sqrt{8+4\sqrt{8}} \right )\]

or

\[x = 1+\sqrt{2}\pm \sqrt{2+\sqrt{8}} = 1+\sqrt{2}\left ( 1 \pm\sqrt{1+\sqrt{2}} \right ) \approx \left\{\begin{matrix} 4.612\\0.217 = \frac{1}{4.612} \end{matrix}\right.\]

The roots are reciprocals, because the left hand side of $(1)$ is symmetric in $x$ and $\frac{1}{x}$, so both roots yield the same RHS, namely $\approx$ 4.612. Therefore, only the larger root is valid.
 
Last edited:
lfdahl said:
My attempt:

Given the equation:

\[\sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}+1}+\sqrt{x+\frac{1}{x}} = x\: \: \:\: \: \: \: \: \: \; (1)\]

Let $y = x+\frac{1}{x}$.

Squaring the given equation:

\[\left ( \sqrt{y+1}+\sqrt{y} \right )^2 = x^2 \Rightarrow 2y + 1+2\sqrt{y^2+y}=x^2 \]

Squaring again:

\[\Rightarrow 4(y^2+y)=\left ( x^2-2y-1 \right )^2\] \[\Rightarrow 4y^2+4y = 4y^2+4y-4x^2y+x^4-2x^2+1 \] \[ \Rightarrow 4x^2y -x^4+2x^2-1=0\]

The last equation is a polynomial of 4th degree:

\[4x^2\left ( x+\frac{1}{x} \right )-x^4+2x^2-1 = 0 \] \[ \Rightarrow x^4-4x^3-2x^2-4x+1 = 0\]

This looks a lot like $(x-1)^4$ except for the midterm ($-2x^2$), so we´ll have to correct with $-8x^2$. The polynomial then has the form:\[(x-1)^4-8x^2 = 0\]

Taking the square root of the identity: $(x-1)^4=8x^2$ leads to:

\[x^2-(2+\sqrt{8})x+1 = 0\]

There are two positive roots \[x = \frac{1}{2}\left ( 2+\sqrt{8} \pm \sqrt{8+4\sqrt{8}} \right )\]

or

\[x = 1+\sqrt{2}\pm \sqrt{2+\sqrt{8}} = 1+\sqrt{2}\left ( 1 \pm\sqrt{1+\sqrt{2}} \right ) \approx \left\{\begin{matrix} 4.612\\0.217 = \frac{1}{4.612} \end{matrix}\right.\]

The roots are reciprocals, because the left hand side of $(1)$ is symmetric in $x$ and $\frac{1}{x}$, so both roots yield the same RHS, namely $\approx$ 4.612. Therefore, only the larger root is valid.

\[x = 1+\sqrt{2}\pm \sqrt{2+\sqrt{8}} = 1+\sqrt{2}\left ( 1 \pm\sqrt{1+\sqrt{2}} \right ) \approx \left\{\begin{matrix} 4.612\\0.217 = \frac{1}{4.612} \end{matrix}\right.\]

The roots are reciprocals, because the left hand side of $(1)$ is symmetric in $x$ and $\frac{1}{x}$, so both roots yield the same RHS, namely $\approx$ 4.612. Therefore, only the larger root is valid.

* yes , by checking only the larger root is valid
 
Last edited:
Variation on Ifdahl's solution:
[sp]Let $y = x + \frac1x$. Then $\bigl(\sqrt{y+1} + \sqrt y\bigr)\bigl(\sqrt{y+1} - \sqrt y\bigr) = y+1-y = 1$. Therefore $$\sqrt{y+1} - \sqrt y = \frac1{\sqrt{y+1} + \sqrt y} = \frac1x.$$ Now add that equation to the given equation $\sqrt{y+1} + \sqrt y = x$, getting $2\sqrt{y+1} = x + \frac1x = y.$ Square both sides: $4(y+1) = y^2$. That is a quadratic, with solutions $y = 2(1\pm\sqrt2).$ Discard the negative solution (because we need to have $\sqrt y$ available). Then $$x + \frac1x = y = 2(1+\sqrt2).$$ Multiply by $x$, getting another quadratic equation $x^2 - 2(1+\sqrt2)x + 1 = 0$. As Ifdahl correctly points out, only the larger solution of this equation, $x = 1+\sqrt2 + \sqrt{2(1+\sqrt2)} \approx 4.6116$, satisfies the original equation.[/sp]
 

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