Based on what has been stated and discussed, that has not universally happened yet.russ_watters said:By not hiring them.
I'm having trouble parsing that and don't see what "yet" has to do with anything. Here's what you said:symbolipoint said:Based on what has been stated and discussed, that has not universally happened yet.
Unless the caveat "depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences" makes the entire claim meaningless, there are lots and lots of jobs that a physics degree doesn't qualify a person to do and thus would not get hired for. For example:A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences. Physics graduates are smart people. A physics graduate could do the work of a chemist, an engineer, computer scientist, software developer, photographer, archivist, various kinds of technicians.
You should not be confused. Some physics graduates found work as engineers. Why? How? Let them explain it if they want. Should they have been hired for those positions? If they are qualified, yes. Could a physics graduate be trained in something on-the-job if it is scientific but not specifically in Physics? Yes, which is why some employer could hire the person. I'm not saying that a degree in physics is any replacement for a license or certificate.russ_watters said:I'm having trouble parsing that and don't see what "yet" has to do with anything. Here's what you said:
Unless the caveat "depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences" makes the entire claim meaningless, there are lots and lots of jobs that a physics degree doesn't qualify a person to do and thus would not get hired for. For example:
-A physics degree plus training in culinary arts would qualify a physicist to be a pastry chef. A physicist without training in culinary arts would not get hired.
-A physics degree and extreme athletic aptitude would qualify a physics to be a professional baseball player. A physicist without extreme athletic aptitude would not get hired.
-A physics degree and a law degree would qualify a physicist to be a lawyer. A physicist without a law degree would not get hired.
I'm aware. But you said that a physicist could do "ANYTHING that anyone else can" -- "ANYTHING" is more than just engineering. So you overstated, right? You meant to say that physics has SOME overlap with other fields and thus a trained physicist can perform SOME other jobs. Right?symbolipoint said:You should not be confused. Some physics graduates found work as engineers.
"ANYTHING" includes engineering, but I do not mean that undergrad Physics is any replacement for license or certificates. Maybe those Physics bachelor degree people were wrong to get their engineering positions. Then again, maybe their particular positions did not require having licenses.russ_watters said:I'm aware. But you said that a physicist could do "ANYTHING that anyone else can" -- "ANYTHING" is more than just engineering. So you overstated, right? You meant to say that physics has SOME overlap with other fields and thus a trained physicist can perform SOME other jobs. Right?
Right, but engineering isn't "anything". Are we really doing this? Was this just a grammar error? You understand that if I have $10 then I don't have all of the money in the world, right? $10 is a subset of all of the money in the world, but all of the money in the world is not a subset of $10.symbolipoint said:"ANYTHING" includes engineering...
I thought I did. What you said was that a physicist can do *any* job. I feel like you are aware that that isn't true - it's downright ridiculous, so perhaps you just didn't mean it the way you wrote it - but seem to be defending it (or dodging it) anyway. I think what you mean is that a physics degree qualifies a person to do *some* non-physics jobs. Right?symbolipoint said:RUSS, EXPLAIN WHAT I AM MISSING! If you know what details I am not aware of say clearly what they are.
That's a start. Maybe my somewhat limited experience with physics students and some graduates & faculty was with some fortunate ones who were lucky.russ_watters said:I thought I did. What you said was that a physicist can do *any* job. I feel like you are aware that that isn't true - it's downright ridiculous, so perhaps you just didn't mean it the way you wrote it - but seem to be defending it (or dodging it) anyway. I think what you mean is that a physics degree qualifies a person to do *some* non-physics jobs. Right?
Why does this matter? Because people often over-state what can be done with a physics degree here and in academia, which sometimes leads to people looking for jobs in the wrong place or having unrealistic expectations of what they can do with the degree. We've had a lot of very angry unemployed physics grads here, who have complained that their departments lied to them about their after-college job prospects.
This thread did get sidetracked a lot, true. But you also changed your question part way through. You first asked what jobs (outside of mainstream physics in a university or research lab) can a physicist (with only physics degrees) perform. That has been answered many times. At least in the US, a physicist can work at jobs in a wide variety of fields (including, but not limited to, engineering, software, business, and finance) as long as (a) an employer is willing to hire him [or he starts his own business] and (b) there are no legal regulations barring him from doing the job. You then shifted gears and said no, you're asking what jobs (outside of mainstream physics in a university or research lab) require a physics degree ... which is an entirely different question from the one you first asked. One answer given is that of medical physicist (but that requires completion of a special medical physics program). Other than that, I'm not aware of any other job that requires a physics degree [e.g., I don't believe you need a physics degree to teach high-school physics, although specific high schools may require it]. Again, all this is from a US perspective.Grands said:Guys, it seems that there is no answer to my question.
I only wanted to know if physics are required to do other kind of jobs outside academia and outside research, obviously without taking others qualifications.
Thanks
Ok, it's true, but also because the admin told me to don't open another thread, because he will close it.CrysPhys said:But you also changed your question part way through.
Ok, but the physicist that in this can is hired, do a job in which he uses the skills he learned from university?CrysPhys said:(a) an employer is willing to hire him [or he starts his own business] and (b) there are no legal regulations barring him from doing the job.
I heard about this opportunity, in the US this kind of residency is paid?CrysPhys said:One answer given is that of medical physicist (but that requires completion of a special medical physics program).
In Italy to teach physics at high school you need a bachelor's and a master degree.CrysPhys said:I don't believe you need a physics degree to teach high-school physics
Grands said:I heard about this opportunity [medical physics residency], in the US this kind of residency is paid?
How does it last?
This is very good, in Italy you get no money, you have to do another job.Choppy said:Yes, medical physics residents are paid. The median salary is about $50k USD.
In Italy last 4 to 5 years...Choppy said:Programs typically last for about two years
Defintely, yes. The key is to leverage off the skills and experiences you've previously learned and continue to acquire new skills. A background in physics (particularly a PhD, more particularly a PhD in experimental physics) provides a set of skills that is both broad and deep. Don't you think that a physicist adept at analyzing data from a collider can analyze data from a financial database? Don't you think that a physicist who can model transport of phonons through superlattices can model transport of petroleum through pipelines? Don't you think that a physicist who can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify defects in semiconductors from electron micrographs can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify tumors in breasts from mammograms? Don't you think a physicst who can design and build a surface analysis lab can design and build a network test lab? ...Grands said:Ok, but the physicist that in this can is hired, do a job in which he uses the skills he learned from university?
Yes, my question it's about that, if you know any video that speak about this can you send the link in PM? Thanks.CrysPhys said:Don't you think that a physicist adept at analyzing data from a collider can analyze data from a financial database? Don't you think that a physicist who can model transport of phonons through superlattices can model transport of petroleum through pipelines? Don't you think that a physicist who can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify defects in semiconductors from electron micrographs can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify tumors in breasts from mammograms? Don't you think a physicst who can design and build a surface analysis lab can design and build a network test lab?
Yes, I get it, if you know some video that speak abut this can you please link it in PM? Thanks.CrysPhys said:Defintely, yes. The key is to leverage off the skills and experiences you've previously learned and continue to acquire new skills. A background in physics (particularly a PhD, more particularly a PhD in experimental physics) provides a set of skills that is both broad and deep. Don't you think that a physicist adept at analyzing data from a collider can analyze data from a financial database? Don't you think that a physicist who can model transport of phonons through superlattices can model transport of petroleum through pipelines? Don't you think that a physicist who can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify defects in semiconductors from electron micrographs can develop enhanced image processing techniques to identify tumors in breasts from mammograms? Don't you think a physicst who can design and build a surface analysis lab can design and build a network test lab? ...
I don't know of a video. I previously gave you a link to APS News. As I mentioned, there are frequent columns describing physicists who work outside of what most consider mainstream physics. So skim through the last several years of issues (published monthly) and find and read those columns.Grands said:Yes, I get it, if you know some video that speak abut this can you please link it in PM? Thanks.
Grands said:What is APS news?
CrysPhys said:With respect to the initial question about physicists working on Wall Street: Yes they do. Some analyze financial data. Some develop predictive models about how portfolios will behave, when to sell, when to buy. Some work as analysts for venture capital firms. Other physicists work for insurance and credit-card companies doing risk analysis and predictive modelling. Here's a story in APS News of a physicist who went from chaos theory to credit-card fraud prevention:
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/201701/profiles.cfm
[By the way, APS News presents columns frequently on physicists working outside of what is considered mainstream physics. You should skim other previous issues as well (publically accessible).]
Sorry, you message was to interesting that I concentred only on the written parts and I didn't saw the link.CrysPhys said:APS News is a monthly newsletter published by the American Physical Society (APS), one of the top professional societies for physicists, not only in the US, but also internationally. Off and on you comment that your questions aren't answered. But are you reading the responses? I gave you a link to APS News in Post #27.
Grands said:Sorry, you message was to interesting that I concentred only on the written parts and I didn't saw the link.
Anyway, can be true the story of that girl that wasn't hired in a science museum, even if she had a degree in Physics, obtained at MIT?
It's just because the MIT is one of the best university and this made me to think that maybe is not so important to pay attention to the ranking.ZapperZ said:Even if it is true, what does that matter? I can also show you where a physics graduate went on to start his own company and become a millionaire. Why are you focusing on the exception rather than the rule?
Really, you'll get a more valid sampling of career opportunities for physicists from APS than from random InterNet videos. I viewed the video. There was no discussion of what the position at the museum was for, and why she was turned down. Here are possible reasons that have nothing to do with her MIT credentials (total conjecture on my part; I'm not saying that any actually applied in her instance): (1) Some positions are geared for staff to explain science to children and non-technical members of the general public. Some scientists aren't good at such communications. (2) Some positions require work during weekday evenings and weekends. Many young adults don't want to work these shifts. (3) There's an issue of being overqualified. Hiring managers don't want to waste their time training a new employee who's obviously just parking herself temporarily at a museum job while searching for a "real" job. The candidate has to have a good answer to the question, "Why do you want this job?" [not, "To pay the rent while I look for a better job."] (4) There was a better candidate.Grands said:Anyway, can be true the story of that girl that wasn't hired in a science museum, even if she had a degree in Physics, obtained at MIT?
Grands said:Anyway it is true that with a degree in Physics at MIT it's hard to find a job in a museum ?
Graduated from MIT in Physics?Anyway it is true that with a degree in Physics at MIT it's hard to find a job in a museum ?
I'm not coming to a conclusion, it's just weird in my opinion.Locrian said:You saw a YouTube video where someone got one rejection letter from a very competitive venue that doesn't typically hire their background and you're. . . coming to some conclusion? Or something?
What do you mean ?symbolipoint said:No, just by faith, no!
You ask, is it true that with degree in Physics from M.I.T. that someone would have a hard time finding a job at a museum?Grands said:I'm not coming to a conclusion, it's just weird in my opinion.
In italy I found another video, that I can't post because is in italian, where an italian guy get a PhD from MIT in astrophysics, he decide to came back in Italy, and now is a clochard, he is called NoPostingNameWithoutPermission, and he ask from to the people in the street, he is 61.
I don't know if this is a fake news, it was on some newspaper, there is a way to check if this news is true?
(and symbolipoint said, "no, just by faith, no!")
What do you mean ?
There are many possible reasons why this particular person was not hired for this particular job, and „not qualified“ is one of the most unlikely options.Grands said:Anyway, can be true the story of that girl that wasn't hired in a science museum, even if she had a degree in Physics, obtained at MIT?