News What lessons can we learn from the Charlie Hebdo shooting?

[Astronuc]

Lauded as hero in Paris attack, Malian man made French citizen
http://news.yahoo.com/lauded-hero-paris-attack-malian-man-made-french-092733513.html

PARIS (Reuters) - The Malian grocery worker hailed as a hero for saving hostages' lives when an Islamist militant attacked a kosher supermarket in Paris this month was made a French citizen on Tuesday.

Lassana Bathily, 24, was joined by French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve and Prime Minister Manuel Valls in a packed naturalisation ceremony.

 

[Bystander]

Let me be specific, what do you think about Charlie Hebdo now?

I agree completely. The danger in being as gratuitously reactionary as the lunatic fringe of the world's Islamic population is that the situation can be escalated to the point where that xenophobic lunatic fringe is in a position to enlist sane, civilized Moslems in a holy war against sane, civilized populations from the rest of the world who've been enlisted by their own xenophobic lunatic fringe to eradicate Islam.

I'll answer that in the Hebdo thread so we don't drag "Interview" off-topic.
I posted a couple times on page 5 (for context), and had to stop paying attention.
"People baffle me" is essentially what I think of the Hebdo "event."

 

[ShayanJ]

I'll answer that in the Hebdo thread so we don't drag "Interview" off-topic.
I posted a couple times on page 5 (for context), and had to stop paying attention.
"People baffle me" is essentially what I think of the Hebdo "event."

I remember you and another member agreeing that Islam should be continually insulted otherwise it will be given a special position compared to Chrsitianality and Judaism. But why non of you considered not to insult neither? Also I should say to muslims, Jesus and Moses are sacred too.
That's what I meant when I said my post in the "interview" doesn't affect the views of people. Because you agreed with my post there but are you going to change your idea about this?

 

[Bystander]

continually insulted

I love language barriers. I will not argue with your reading of what was written. I was agreeing with X's assertion that "special" treatment/position of Islam, Islamic tradition is NOT a solution to the problems that arise when iconoclasts like Charlie Hebdo are offensive just for the sake of being offensive to Islam. Some people are incapable of maturing beyond the behavioral level achieved by three year olds. Charlie Hebdo was one, Gary Trudeau is one, the creators of South Park, Saturday Night Live, and dozens of other examples of abuse of "freedom of speech/expression." Ignore them. Some adherents of Islam appear to be likewise incapable of maturing behaviorally beyond the skill levels of three year olds, and are incapable of ignoring "free speech," and are offended simply for the sake of being offended by the three year olds who are offensive simply for the sake of being offensive.

Infantile personalities who are dangers to themselves and others do have to be isolated. Would I throw Charlie, Gary, and other publicly offensive spoiled brats in the isolation ward as well as the crazies pulling guns? Yes. Is that the way the world works? No. I won't apologize to you for human nature --- it's not my fault that people are irrational. I will commiserate with you --- I don't like it any more than you do. I'm not a special case to demand special privileges on the basis of birthright, citizenship, religion, race, education, gender, or anything else.

 

[ShayanJ]

I love language barriers. I will not argue with your reading of what was written. I was agreeing with X's assertion that "special" treatment/position of Islam, Islamic tradition is NOT a solution to the problems that arise when iconoclasts like Charlie Hebdo are offensive just for the sake of being offensive to Islam. Some people are incapable of maturing beyond the behavioral level achieved by three year olds. Charlie Hebdo was one, Gary Trudeau is one, the creators of South Park, Saturday Night Live, and dozens of other examples of abuse of "freedom of speech/expression." Ignore them. Some adherents of Islam appear to be likewise incapable of maturing behaviorally beyond the skill levels of three year olds, and are incapable of ignoring "free speech," and are offended simply for the sake of being offended by the three year olds who are offensive simply for the sake of being offensive.

Infantile personalities who are dangers to themselves and others do have to be isolated. Would I throw Charlie, Gary, and other publicly offensive spoiled brats in the isolation ward as well as the crazies pulling guns? Yes. Is that the way the world works? No. I won't apologize to you for human nature --- it's not my fault that people are irrational. I will commiserate with you --- I don't like it any more than you do. I'm not a special case to demand special privileges on the basis of birthright, citizenship, religion, race, education, gender, or anything else.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But the problem is, non-muslims aren't judged by the actions of those kids you mentioned. But muslims are judged by actions of such fanatics. It seems to a great number of people, Islam is evil a priori and so they like to judge muslims by the action of such people. But is it correct to judge a society based on its criminals?

 

[Bystander]

judge a society based on its criminals?

I can give you a flat "No" on that. Do I live in a country that rounded up citizens of nth generation Japanese heritage in the second world war? Yes. Can it happen again? Yes. Did a million people die in Rwanda over a totally artificial colonially imposed cultural distinction that was decades out of date or even reason to be remembered? Yes.

Is the situation going to get much worse before it improves? Thirteen centuries of bad blood to be avenged --- real or imagined atrocities, insults, suspicions, propaganda. ?

 

[ShayanJ]

I can give you a flat "No" on that. Do I live in a country that rounded up citizens of nth generation Japanese heritage in the second world war? Yes. Can it happen again? Yes. Did a million people die in Rwanda over a totally artificial colonially imposed cultural distinction that was decades out of date or even reason to be remembered? Yes.

Is the situation going to get much worse before it improves? Thirteen centuries of bad blood to be avenged --- real or imagined atrocities, insults, suspicions, propaganda. ?

Well, I think I'm on the border here. So I prefer no to continue. I just hope things don't get much bloody in the future, although that's not what I predict!

 

[nikkkom]

For all people concerned about "Islamophobia on the rise".
Guess what. There is a "phobia" on the rise in Europe, but curiously, lefties seem to be deaf and blind to it.

Here's an experiment of a Swede pretending he is a Jew by wearing yarmulke. In Sweden, Malmo. Start from 28 minutes. (Enable automated English subtitles. They are not perfect, but you can understand it).



The gist of it, _merely for being a Jew_, you get harassed. Today. In Europe.

 

[mheslep]

"One day we will slaughter you all" says a Swede, a common, if not universal, opinion captured in the video.

The Swedes for the most part sat out WWII and managed to dodge the Third Reich until the Allies arrived, so maybe they modern inhabitants lack an understanding of what it was like to suffer, as 1939 Germany ultimately did, the loss six million of its citizens to combat and civilian deaths, the complete devastation of the infrastructure, and the partition of the country for 45 years. Six million Swedes would be 60% of the population.