What can we learn from Texas' power grid failure?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the power grid failure in Texas, exploring the causes, impacts, and lessons learned from the event. Participants examine the implications of the failure in terms of infrastructure preparedness for extreme weather, the role of renewable energy, and the economic consequences for residents.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Experimental/applied
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference an opinion piece that suggests the Texas power grid was unprepared for extreme cold, citing previous similar failures as evidence of a lack of learning from past experiences.
  • Others argue that the people of Texas have a unique relationship with their state, implying that the lessons learned may not be universally applicable or accepted.
  • A participant shares anecdotal evidence of varying experiences with power outages among residents in the same metropolitan area, highlighting the uneven distribution of blackouts.
  • Questions are raised about the specific causes of the power outage, with some attributing it to the lack of winterization of power equipment and others noting that renewable energy sources were not the sole cause of the failures.
  • Some participants discuss the economic impact of the outages, particularly regarding high electricity bills faced by customers of Griddy Energy, and the subsequent reassignment to flat rate utilities.
  • Concerns are expressed about the overall reliability of electrical power distribution systems in extreme conditions, with a participant questioning the adequacy of current infrastructure to maintain supply during such events.
  • There is mention of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas cutting access to Griddy Energy due to nonpayment, which has implications for customers' future electricity rates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the causes of the power grid failure, the preparedness of the Texas grid, and the economic ramifications for residents. The discussion remains unresolved with no clear consensus on the lessons learned or the adequacy of responses to the crisis.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that previous recommendations for winterizing power infrastructure were not mandated, leading to ongoing vulnerabilities. The discussion also highlights the complexity of energy pricing and the variability of customer experiences during the outages.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying energy infrastructure, climate resilience, economic impacts of energy policies, and the social dynamics of regional responses to crises.

  • #61
Vanadium 50 said:
After some thought, I am going to defend price-gouging.

Texas did not have enough (robust) capacity. How do I know? There were rolling blackouts. That's practically the definition of "not enough capacity".

Sure, but keep in mind that Texas' decision to isolate their electrical grid was for political reasons, not technical.

Technically speaking, it wouldn't take much trouble to more easily link their grid to other locations, even selling power when they have excess and buying when they really need it (it could have proved very helpful in this disaster).

It's not that they couldn't have done that. It's that they wouldn't.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/08/why-texas-has-its-own-power-grid.html
 
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  • #62
For many people, rates are higher on the variable plans. Their ability to shift power usage is limited. If it's hot today, turning on the air conditioning tomorrow doesn't help. I have a PHEV, so I charge it when the rates are low - sometimes negative.
 
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  • #63
collinsmark said:
Sure, but keep in mind that Texas' decision to isolate their electrical grid was for political reasons, not technical.

But many people's preferred solutions involve injecting even more politics into the mix. That may not have the intended result.
 
  • #64
(Bloomberg) -- Just Energy Group Inc. filed for court protection in Canada and bankruptcy in the U.S. after suffering crushing losses in the Texas blackouts that plunged millions of people into darkness and the region’s power sector into chaos.

The unprecedented Texas outages left four million homes and businesses without heat, light and in some cases water as a rare and powerful winter storm gripped the region, causing as much as $129 billion in economic losses. Dozens of people died in the cold. The impact on individual corporations is only starting to emerge. The state’s power market faces a $2.4 billion shortfall as companies face sky-high energy bills.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/just-energy-seeks-bankruptcy-texas-162232824.html
I don't know the origin or veracity of the $129 billion estimate, or if 'region' refers to Texas or includes Oklahoma, parts of Louisiana, or whatever.
Vanadium 50 said:
How would that work exactly? A buys something (power in this case) from B who bought it from C who bought it from D who bought it from E... Who is left holding the bag? If it's unfair (however you define "unfairness") that A is left holding the bag, who should? B? C? D? The taxpayers of Texas? The taxpayers of the US?
I'm not sure how that would work. Apparently, enough supply came back online, they didn't need to pay the higher rates for generation. I don't know if any generator was left holding the bag, unless they went a bought fuel at an inflated price because ERCOT bid a high price to purchase the electrical output. ERCOT doesn't regulate gas price, but only wholesale price in the Texas market. The story I read, and about which I posted, was that ERCOT continued to charge high rates when the emergency had subsided.

I'd have to find a definition of 'rolling blackout' because for some it didn't roll, but stayed put for more than a day or two days, while other didn't lose power. Rolling usually refers to off (for a limited period, e.g., 4 hours) and on again for some period (e.g., 4 hours). A family member was without power for more than 24 hours (ultimately more than 36 hours), while a close friend didn't lose power, and another family member had intermittent disruption (but had a backup generator).
 
  • #65
Just energy just emerged from bankruptcy like, three months ago also. I wonder what the record for shortest turnaround bank into bankruptcy is.

My understanding is some of the infrastructure used to roll blackouts failed, causing some areas to be stuck for a while.
 
  • #66
March 15 (Reuters) - Texas power retailer Griddy Energy LLC on Monday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after the state grid operator cut off the company's access to customers for unpaid bills following the Texas freeze.

The company said it is seeking court authority to release customers from outstanding bills, . . .
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-idUSKBN2B72FB

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Griddy-declares-bankruptcy-16027159.php
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...r-griddy-bankrupted-by-high-electricity-costs
“We firmly believe in our model but, in order for it to be successful, the grid has to function properly, and prices have to be set by market forces,” Griddy co-founder Gregory Craig said in the release. “The actions of ERCOT caused our customers to unnecessarily suffer and caused irreparable harm to our business.”
 
  • #67
(Bloomberg) -- NRG Energy Inc. withdrew an earlier full-year profit forecast and said it expects a $750 million loss due to the brutal cold snap that froze Texas and led to sweeping blackouts.

“Based on the new information available to us today, we are unable to provide financial guidance due to the unprecedented and unpredictable market outcomes resulting from winter storm Uri,” Chief Executive Officer Mauricio Gutierrez said Wednesday in a statement.
. . .
The company revised its estimate of the financial impact as defaults on the Texas grid surged to $3.1 billion from a previous assumption of $1.3 billion, Gutierrez said during a conference call with analysts. The grid operator passes on those defaults as charges to market participants. NRG’s share is “shy of $200 million,” he said.

Gutierrez said the estimates could be revised again as NRG has received resettlement data for 80% of its commercial and industrial load compared with 99% for residential consumers. There remains “significant uncertainty” as Texas lawmakers and regulators consider repricing or other measures to mitigate the impact of the crisis, he said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...es-750-million-loss-following-texas-cold-snap

Vistra Corp. has indicated that blackouts could cost it between $0.9 to $1.3 billion, and Exelon Corp. indicated a first-quarter net income reduction by $560 to $710 million because of the outages.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...xpects-losses-from-texas-freeze-idUSKBN2AO1H3
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/bu...to-1-3-billion-loss-winter-storm-15981855.php
 
  • #68
This from today, Practical Engineering:

 
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  • #69
Texas Utility (CPS Energy) Suing Suppliers for Gas Price-Gouging After February Storm and Outages
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...suppliers-for-price-gouging-in-february-storm
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/bu...Sues-Suppliers-for-Price-Gouging-16049157.php
CPS Energy, a Texas utility, is suing energy giants including BP Energy Co., Chevron Corp. and Energy Transfer. CPS supplies over 1.1 million customers in the San Antonio area with power and gas, and is disputing charges amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars at a minimum in 13 lawsuits.

On Monday, Spire Missouri Inc., a utility company, filed a lawsuit against Symmetry Energy Solutions LLC over failed natural gas deliveries that allegedly caused over $100 million in losses. Symmetry is also being targeted by CPS.

Power suppliers including Vistra Corp., NRG Energy Inc. and Exelon Corp. have disclosed billions in losses associated with the freeze.

CPS Energy said in the Energy Transfer lawsuit that subsidiaries Houston Pipe Line Co. and Oasis Pipeline LP charged a price for natural gas that was more than 15,000% higher than normal during the climate disaster. That’s like paying more than $7,000 to fill a tank with gas that usually costs less than $50, the company said.
 
  • #70
I had also similar experience in 2019.

On August 4th circa 12:00, western halves of Java (Banten, Jakarta, West Java, and Western Central Java) experiences blackout. While electricity in Jakarta was restored at night of the same day, at my town (Tangerang) the electricity was restored in evening the following day (August 5th). Investigation from PLN (not Złoty but the sole giant power operator) narrowed down the culprit to failure of generators in Ungaran (near Semarang). Such failure partly due to fall of sengon tree near the transmission line in the generator.
 
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  • #71
collinsmark said:
This from today, Practical Engineering:


I liked that video. I thought he did a decent job explaining the sequence leading up to the power failures.
We went into this expecting to have some "rolling blackouts" - off for a few hours, then back on again. That would have been manageable. Instead, it went out, then stayed out for 2 days at my house. Then in other neighborhoods a few miles away, it was off for less than 24 hours.
 
  • #73
Office_Shredder said:
Electricity generators made something like 40 billion dollars in windfall profits. That's probably enough to justify some weather proofing? How much are they supposed to make?

A random Google search suggests texas uses 1 TWh of electricity per day. It also suggests natural gas plants cost about 800 dollars per kW of power they can produce (I picked natural gas because I believe it can turn on and off quickly, exactly what you want to respond to this type of crisis).

If I did my math right (questionable, double check me!) I think you could spend that 40 billion dollars building enough natural gas plants to produce electricity for all of Texas.
It sounds like a lucrative business MORE people should get into, don't you think? Why don't YOU build these generators and run them as YOU see fit? It is far easier to prove a point with an example rather than with things that do not exist: words and ideas.
 
  • #74
scottdave said:
I liked that video. I thought he did a decent job explaining the sequence leading up to the power failures.
We went into this expecting to have some "rolling blackouts" - off for a few hours, then back on again. That would have been manageable. Instead, it went out, then stayed out for 2 days at my house. Then in other neighborhoods a few miles away, it was off for less than 24 hours.
No. He only handled the aggregate issues which do nothing to account for all the micro issues involved in this problem.

Here is a simple question to answer regarding this whole debacle: what do you NEED to keep warm during a cold snap?

Apply that question at the individual level and work your way up.
 

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