Whatever happened to geothermal energy production?

[jkn]

I doubt that that would occur
bad assumption as you have no idea when the natural eruption will occur. Your drilling may only be weeks or months before the natural eruption

I agree: it would be very unlikely that drilling under volcano causes an eruption. Drill hole is so narrow that magma cool and block it.
But, It should be studied before drilling.If natural eruption would come soon anyway drilling has insignificant effect on timing and size of eruption. It might change direction of eruption. This might have large effect.

Assumption (In unlikely case that drilling causes an eruption then eruption will came sooner than naturally. So it will be smaller.) is valid anyway.

 

[jkn]

In very basic terms LCOE is the sum of the initial cost + yearly operating cost" over the life of the plant. Please also keep in mind that geothermal power plants can operate practically indefinitely until the temperature underground is exhausted, which is quite hard to do to my limited knowledge.

This is true if there are cracks that allow some fluid to transport heat. If there are no cracks, then heat storage will be exhausted. 100 m of solid rock is very good insulator. Cooling rock could cause more cracks, so this might not be a problem.

 

[Gary Feierbach]

My understanding is that Yellowstone has enough geothermal resources to supply the entire US with power for the foreseeable future. Why wouldn't tapping that resource also draw off sufficient heat to prevent that super volcanic site from blowing up thus saving hundreds of thousands of lives?

 

[davenn]

Why wouldn't tapping that resource also draw off sufficient heat to prevent that super volcanic site from blowing up thus saving hundreds of thousands of lives?

because a few small wells tapping a bit of steam doesn't do anything to reduce the huge amounts of magma that is slowly expanding the magna chamber as it enters into the chamber from the mantle below

 

[n01]

Yes, but either way, something HAS to be done about a potential Yellowstone eruption... It's literally an existential threat to the US.

 

[davenn]

Yes, but either way, something HAS to be done about a potential Yellowstone eruption... It's literally an existential threat to the US.

unfortunately, there isn't much man can do with current tech available

 

[n01]

unfortunately, there isn't much man can do with current tech available

Then what would be required to do about that possible scenario to make it never happen?

 

[n01]

because a few small wells tapping a bit of steam doesn't do anything to reduce the huge amounts of magma that is slowly expanding the magna chamber as it enters into the chamber from the mantle below

I think at the very least, pressure can be relieved. I mean, even pumping out magma would be suitable or causing tiny vents where the magma might find relief. On the other hand, that could just hasten the process?

I'd put money down for a fund to find a solution to this problem, and think it should start occupying our national security/interests agenda.

 

[Bystander]

My understanding is that Yellowstone has enough geothermal resources to supply the entire US with power for the foreseeable future.

What's the time scale of "the foreseeable future" compared to the scale of human resources?

 

[davenn]

I think at the very least, pressure can be relieved.

no

I mean, even pumping out magma would be suitable

you are not serious, are you ??
pumping out 1000C + molten rock ... not going to happen

you seem to have a lack of basic understanding of what is going on at depth within an active volcanic system

 

[n01]

no
you are not serious, are you ??
pumping out 1000C + molten rock ... not going to happen

you seem to have a lack of basic understanding of what is going on at depth within an active volcanic system

I'm sorry. I meant to say to drill holes that would allow the magma to come out in a controlled manner? Or can that not be controlled?

 

[Astronuc]

See this thread about efforts to develop geothermal technology

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/coming-to-a-volcano-near-you-maybe.812367/

With respect to Yellowstone:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...r-massive-new-magma-chamber-under-yellowstone
https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/yellowstone/yellowstone_sub_page_91.html

I believe we have some discussion on the Yellowstone Caldera somewhere in this forum.

 

[n01]

See this thread about efforts to develop geothermal technology

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/coming-to-a-volcano-near-you-maybe.812367/

With respect to Yellowstone:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...r-massive-new-magma-chamber-under-yellowstone
https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/yellowstone/yellowstone_sub_page_91.html

I believe we have some discussion on the Yellowstone Caldera somewhere in this forum.

Christ,

But now a second, much larger reservoir of partially molten rock has been discovered by researchers at the University of Utah. There's enough magma inside, they say, to fill the Grand Canyon more than 11 times.

from here

Yeah, I can see how drilling some holes is quite an attempt in futility. Nevertheless, something has to be done to minimize the costs, which I'm already researching, of such a mega-eruption, and from what I gather, Yellowstone is due for another eruption...

If anyone thinks this is worth posting in a separate thread about "getting something done/researched/funded in regards to a Yellowstone eruption", then please let me know. I might as well and ask USGS about that question and what they professionals, think.

However, I still like the idea of utilizing Yellowstone as a source for power energy for well forever? There's probably some exajouls of energy that can be tapped there.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I said this before, but I'll say it again re: Yellowstone.

Reasons that you want something are not the same as reasons that it is possible.

 

[BillTre]

It is my understanding that magma underground can often have large amounts of dissolved gasses, which when exposed to surface pressures come out of solution (in the molten rock) and greatly expand the volume of what is coming up.
Basically it kind of explodes (as gas is formed) in extreme cases.

This is why ash and holey racks like pumice form.

One might want to control this in any project involving bringing magma from depths to the surface in an area where there has been a history of these kinds of eruptions.

 

[hydrogeologist]

A lot of the problem is the relatively high uncertainty in if an exploratory drill hole will yield adequate temperatures to produce energy at the depths that are affordable. Those levelized costs are for successful drilling sites which then go on to be exploited for geothermal energy, and don't take into account explorations which are unproductive. We really don't have fine resolution imaging which would allow us to know exactly where to drill, and the imaging techniques we do have don't distinguish between if an area is warmer/cooler than its surroundings or if the mineralogy is just different. Power companies don't like capital expenditure without knowing what the return will be, when they could just build a power plant with guaranteed returns. We could just target hot springs, and Mid-Ocean Ridges (MORs) like Iceland, however as previously noted these sites typically are not conveniently located and incur power distribution costs not captured in the cost estimates cited above.

Additionally a geothermal site doesn't produce perpetual energy, unless you are located on an MOR Iceland where you have a continuous flux of magma upwelling, or a hot spring (still not perpetual, but you have a hydrothermal system helping enhance upward heat flow). Rocks have a relatively low specific heat (~0.2 c/g), and have low conductivity, so it really isn't too hard to cool the area immediately around the drilling site faster than the surrounding rocks can transmit energy into the boring site. As a result most successful geothermal plants have a life expectancy of 30 years, unless you're on a MOR like Iceland. If we could go to 10 km like the map someone posted above, geothermal would be a sure thing. However, it is immensely more difficult to design a system that can withstand several kilobars of vertical pressure than it is to build a container under conditions of one bar and send it into a vacuum without it bursting (Apollo program). We would need metastable materials that are able to exist at those temperatures and pressures. metamorphic rocks exist because that is not common in or outside of nature.

-A geologist with energy policy work experience.

 

[n01]

A lot of the problem is the relatively high uncertainty in if an exploratory drill hole will yield adequate temperatures to produce energy at the depths that are affordable. Those levelized costs are for successful drilling sites which then go on to be exploited for geothermal energy, and don't take into account explorations which are unproductive. We really don't have fine resolution imaging which would allow us to know exactly where to drill, and the imaging techniques we do have don't distinguish between if an area is warmer/cooler than its surroundings or if the mineralogy is just different. Power companies don't like capital expenditure without knowing what the return will be, when they could just build a power plant with guaranteed returns. We could just target hot springs, and Mid-Ocean Ridges (MORs) like Iceland, however as previously noted these sites typically are not conveniently located and incur power distribution costs not captured in the cost estimates cited above.

Additionally a geothermal site doesn't produce perpetual energy, unless you are located on an MOR Iceland where you have a continuous flux of magma upwelling, or a hot spring (still not perpetual, but you have a hydrothermal system helping enhance upward heat flow). Rocks have a relatively low specific heat (~0.2 c/g), and have low conductivity, so it really isn't too hard to cool the area immediately around the drilling site faster than the surrounding rocks can transmit energy into the boring site. As a result most successful geothermal plants have a life expectancy of 30 years, unless you're on a MOR like Iceland. If we could go to 10 km like the map someone posted above, geothermal would be a sure thing. However, it is immensely more difficult to design a system that can withstand several kilobars of vertical pressure than it is to build a container under conditions of one bar and send it into a vacuum without it bursting (Apollo program). We would need metastable materials that are able to exist at those temperatures and pressures. metamorphic rocks exist because that is not common in or outside of nature.

-A geologist with energy policy work experience.

Wow, much appreciated, Sir.

What are your thoughts about exploiting the heat under Yellowstone if I might ask? Is it feasible without endangering an eruption?

 

[Mark44]

The initial question appears to have been asked and answered, so I am closing this thread.