What's that stuff around your eyes?

[jackmell]

"well, that's kinda . . . is there anyway . . . I mean . . . why exactly . . . just what exactly is all that stuf around your eyes?"

"dad! it's makeup. Don't you like it?"

"well, it's kinda' a lot don't you think?"

"dad, I think it looks nice."

"yeah, well . . . how about nothing? how would that work?"

"what do you mean nothing?"

"I mean nothing, nothing. That wouldn't work?"

"you mean don't wear any eye makeup!"

"yeah, how about that?"

"I'd look terrible!"

"No you wouldn't. you're very pretty."

"Not without makeup I'm not"

"yes you are."

"dad, you'd say that no matter what."

"no I wouldn't."

"would too. Dad, how do I look when I wake up in the morning?"

"you look very pretty sweetheart."

"seeeee!"

 

[DaveC426913]

Um. So are you for makepup? Or agin it?

And who's the chick?

 

[jackmell]

Um. So are you for makepup? Or agin it?

And who's the chick?

Hello Dave. She plays on "Gossip Girls". Don't follow it and I don't know how old she is. Maybe 19 I would guess. Just saw it in the news and thought it was kinda' a lot of makup and wondered how I would approach it (carefully) if she was mine. :)

 

[Office_Shredder]

That's not makeup. That's the spectral mark left by the souls of her victims as she drains them from their bodies.

It's similar in nature to the woman in heroes that would cry black ooze and kill everyone in the vicinity

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

wondered how I would approach it (carefully) if she was mine. :)

The idea is to be against it in such a way that she does it anyway. It's the cheapest way to channel the rebelliousness.

 

[DaveC426913]

Hello Dave. She plays on "Gossip Girls". Don't follow it and I don't know how old she is. Maybe 19 I would guess. Just saw it in the news and thought it was kinda' a lot of makup and wondered how I would approach it (carefully) if she was mine. :)

Well, if my 19-year-old daughter were staring in a hit TV show, I would not have a lot to say about her choice of makeup. I'd just keep in her good books and hope she remembers when it come time to be put to pasture.

 

[jackmell]

Well, if my 19-year-old daughter were staring in a hit TV show, I would not have a lot to say about her choice of makeup. I'd just keep in her good books and hope she remembers when it come time to be put to pasture.

Hey Dave. Gotta' daughter? I wouldn't object or disapprove of her makup when she's 13 let alone when she 19. Gotta' empower them during their teen years, give them freedom to make decisions on their own (within reason) so that engagements like this are common and non-threatening, but rather just fun and play-serious.

 

[lisab]

Just looking at that pic makes my eyes burn and itch. Does that mean I have super powers?

 

[DaveC426913]

Hey Dave. Gotta' daughter?

No.

Closest I've got is a 16yo a girl next door who's friends with my boys.

Smart, savvy and sweet as sweet can be, but she dresses like a ten dollar hooker. (No joke, we're talking silver sequined tube tops and short-shorts.) She's not being a tease, she just seems to like dressing that way.

 

[GeorginaS]

Jackmell, as a woman who well recalls teenage years and make-up quarrels with parents, I'd leave my daughter alone about it. I'd make sure that she knew the proper quality products to buy so she didn't damage her eyes, and I'd make sure she attended a make-up course so she knew how to apply it properly. (I've taken professional make-up courses, but teenaged rarely listen to what their mothers have to say.) When they're using decent stuff for their skin and know how to apply it well, they can look great. Assuming they want to wear it. Commentary -- supposedly kidding or not -- isn't welcome.

Also, by the time I was 19, I'd already been living on my own and been self-supporting for two years. I'm pretty sure my dad didn't get to comment on anything to do with my life, let alone my make-up.

Um, Dave? How come you're well-versed in the cost of hookers?

 

[Evo]

My parents told me I looked like crap without makeup and whenever I tried to leave without makeup, they'd stop me and tell me I should go put some on.

So did my boss, the one time I had serious bronchitis and didn't wear makeup to work. My co-workers that would ask me if I was ill if I didn't do my full makeup, and then my daughters made me wear dark sunglasses if I went out with them and didn't have makeup on.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Um, Dave? How come you're well-versed in the cost of hookers?

Even I know what a ten-dollar hooker costs. They're a dime a dozen, right?

 

[GeorginaS]

Even I know what a ten-dollar hooker costs. They're a dime a dozen, right?

So what you're saying is that you and Dave have exchanged notes, then?

 

[Astronuc]

My parents told me I looked like crap without makeup and whenever I tried to leave without makeup, they'd stop me and tell me I should go put some on.

So did my boss, the one time I had serious bronchitis and didn't wear makeup to work. My co-workers that would ask me if I was ill if I didn't do my full makeup, and then my daughters made me wear dark sunglasses if I went out with them and didn't have makeup on.

Well - they were all wrong.

I can appreciate a modest amount of make up, but as far as I'm concerned, it's thoroughly unnecessary.

Those who 'insist' that make up is a necessity are superficial as far as I'm concerned.

 

[dlgoff]

I'm just thankful my 19 year old doesn't over do it. But I'm like you Astronuc; none would be fine with me.

At least she hasn't went for any piercings. Yet.

 

[GeorginaS]

Well - they were all wrong.

I can appreciate a modest amount of make up, but as far as I'm concerned, it's thoroughly unnecessary.

Those who 'insist' that make up is a necessity are superficial as far as I'm concerned.

Of course it's superficial, Astronuc, but -- and especially in our society -- and especially for young girls/women -- it's virtually inescapable. Everywhere you turn you see images telling you what's acceptable in terms of appearance and what's not. It's really, really difficult as a teenage female who's going through hormone storms, who's trying to find her place in the world, to find ways to feel confident. And make-up does that for quite a few young women. That's why I counsel, if they want to wear it, show them how to do it well and properly.

Plenty of young women (and women in general) feel perfectly comfortable without the stuff. Which is great. Plenty don't, though, and I don't see the harm in an artificial self-esteem boost until they can sort themselves out to the point of being comfortable enough in their own skin to go without make-up. I know it took me a fair number of years to feel good about myself without make-up on, and I appreciate the years that having make-up to wear made me feel as if I'd donned a suit of armour, and I was well armed to face whatever came at me.

I outgrew it, yes. I have friends who are in their 50s who are only now outgrowing it and feel confident enough to go out without make-up on.

Is it superficial? Of course it is, because we know what actually matters. Until young people achieve that knowledge and self-comfort and self-possession, though, I see nothing wrong a few props.

 

[Astronuc]

Everywhere you turn you see images telling you what's acceptable in terms of appearance and what's not.

If one is referring to glamour magazines and adds for what is takes to be 'attractive' and 'socially acceptable', yes I see those. I actually find them irritating and an eyesore. I would rather not see those images. I generally ignore them, and most commercials, which frankly I see as a thorough waste off effort and resources.

Maybe I have an advantage in being Aspbergers or high functioning autistic. I just never really cared about the socially acceptable or pop culture stuff. I dressed comfortably the way I wanted to regardless of whether anyone like it or not.

In addition to make up, I really can't stand perfumes and colognes. They are artificial and irritate my eyes and nose. I much prefer women not wear artifical scents.

 

[GeorginaS]

If one is referring to glamour magazines and adds for what is takes to be 'attractive' and 'socially acceptable', yes I see those. I actually find them irritating and an eyesore. I would rather not see those images. I generally ignore them, and most commercials, which frankly I see as a thorough waste off effort and resources.

It's not just the glamour magazines, or advertisements, it's every woman on television, every image of a woman on the Internet, every woman in every music video, every image you see a woman in public she's overtly wearing make-up. Most of the men are too, but it's subtle and designed to smooth imperfections. With women, it's obvious and appears to be -- comes across as -- the standard and the test of beauty.

I realize that most men don't understand it. And I understand that dads, in particular, don't necessarily understand it about their daughters. And I totally, entirely understand where you're coming from. Especially the dads. I do. Really. I've seen that expression in my father's eyes. I get where you're coming from.

So for dads, especially, it's not that you thinking we look good without make-up doesn't matter, because it does. But how they feel inside of themselves about themselves takes time to ripen. And make-up helps a lot of young women. So if your daughter or girlfriend or friend or spouse doesn't feel quite right without make-up on, my advice is to not make your commentary about make-up or how they look, even. Just keep reinforcing how great of a person you think they are. Focus on accomplishments. Take the pressure away from appearances.

A few months ago, while seeing me off at the airport, my father said the most incredible, remarkable thing he's said to me in my whole entire life. He said, "Goodbye, my wonderful, adorable daughter." I'm going to hold onto and treasure that moment forever. Those few words mean more to me than any comment he's ever made about my appearances or lack of comment he's made about anything else. Maybe I'm a mush, but that's what this daughter needed from her dad. I needed to know that he thinks that of me, not that he thinks I look fine without make-up.

 

[DaveC426913]

So what you're saying is that you and Dave have exchanged notes, then?

Yes. Rotisserie. Only 5 bucks each.

 

[lisab]

It's not just the glamour magazines, or advertisements, it's every woman on television, every image of a woman on the Internet, every woman in every music video, every image you see a woman in public she's overtly wearing make-up. Most of the men are too, but it's subtle and designed to smooth imperfections. With women, it's obvious and appears to be -- comes across as -- the standard and the test of beauty.

I realize that most men don't understand it. And I understand that dads, in particular, don't necessarily understand it about their daughters. And I totally, entirely understand where you're coming from. Especially the dads. I do. Really. I've seen that expression in my father's eyes. I get where you're coming from.

So for dads, especially, it's not that you thinking we look good without make-up doesn't matter, because it does. But how they feel inside of themselves about themselves takes time to ripen. And make-up helps a lot of young women. So if your daughter or girlfriend or friend or spouse doesn't feel quite right without make-up on, my advice is to not make your commentary about make-up or how they look, even. Just keep reinforcing how great of a person you think they are. Focus on accomplishments. Take the pressure away from appearances.

A few months ago, while seeing me off at the airport, my father said the most incredible, remarkable thing he's said to me in my whole entire life. He said, "Goodbye, my wonderful, adorable daughter." I'm going to hold onto and treasure that moment forever. Those few words mean more to me than any comment he's ever made about my appearances or lack of comment he's made about anything else. Maybe I'm a mush, but that's what this daughter needed from her dad. I needed to know that he thinks that of me, not that he thinks I look fine without make-up.

Yes, dads have a special role to play in developing their daughter's self-image, no doubt about it. And they do it just the way you say, by keeping comments about appearance low-key while praising academics, kindness, sports achievement, etc.

But I suspect that moms are where the daughters converge to, as far as wearing make-up. I've never worn much, nor has my mother...and now, my daughter wears very little. I know as a young woman I didn't recognize how strong that influence was, but I sure see it now.

 

[Evo]

My mother didn't wear makeup, aside from lipstick and a tiny bit of eyeshadow, only when she went out. She was a L'Oreal model before I was born.

My dad was an electrical engineer and would make me do exercises in his college books when I was 8 years old. He loved how smart I was. But the truth was, I looked like a super model when I wore makeup, I looked like Quasimodo without makeup.

 

[GeorginaS]

Yes, dads have a special role to play in developing their daughter's self-image, no doubt about it. And they do it just the way you say, by keeping comments about appearance low-key while praising academics, kindness, sports achievement, etc.

But I suspect that moms are where the daughters converge to, as far as wearing make-up. I've never worn much, nor has my mother...and now, my daughter wears very little. I know as a young woman I didn't recognize how strong that influence was, but I sure see it now.

Oh yes, absolutely, Lisa, watching what our mothers do or don't do or say about make-up and appearance or don't say is important. I didn't mean to downplay that. I was directing my comments at dads because there appeared to be dads or will be/would be dads in this thread posing questions. Hence my focus.

 

[GeorginaS]

But the truth was, I looked like a super model when I wore makeup, I looked like Quasimodo without makeup.

I doubt that really, really strongly, Evo, because features are features. Make-up doesn't create them.

However, I do entirely understand your perception.

 

[xunxine]

Maybe the make-up the girl is wearing in the photo is for that event only? I don't think she wears that all the time. There're different ways of putting stuff around your eyes for different occasions. And make-up is a trend that changes with time. For now is the smokey eyes (I think...) Personally I don't wear make-up often or even read fashion mags until I started working. Even then it's only minimal.

My dad doesn't really care abt my make-up or what I wear unless it gets in the way, like thick make-up at a funeral or wearing skirt when playing bowling. My mum is the one who told me to wear more make-up (until now, sigh). I used to try out putting on more stuff but it's just too weird for me and too fake (or maybe I'm just not good at it).

Wearing make-up does not mean less confident of own features. A girl can be confident and the make-up highlights that confidence. Likewise, wearing less (or no) make-up does not mean comfortable in your own skin. I know women who wear make-up when they're single but don't wear make-up after they're married. I heard that married women are encouraged to wear make-up especially for their husbands.

I think it's more important to be healthy and happy, cos if you are, you'll glow naturally, with or without make-up. Just my two cents worth (not ten dollars unfortunately).

 

[BobG]

My parents told me I looked like crap without makeup and whenever I tried to leave without makeup, they'd stop me and tell me I should go put some on.

So did my boss, the one time I had serious bronchitis and didn't wear makeup to work. My co-workers that would ask me if I was ill if I didn't do my full makeup, and then my daughters made me wear dark sunglasses if I went out with them and didn't have makeup on.

Well - they were all wrong.

I can appreciate a modest amount of make up, but as far as I'm concerned, it's thoroughly unnecessary.

Those who 'insist' that make up is a necessity are superficial as far as I'm concerned.

You just called Evo's mom a superficial idiot?! :

I foresee bad things in your future.

 

[Astronuc]

I doubt that really, really strongly, Evo, because features are features. Make-up doesn't create them.

However, I do entirely understand your perception.

Concur.

You just called Evo's mom a superficial idiot?! :surprise:

I didn't use the word 'idiot'. Obviously Evo's parents had issues. I would have had strong words for them, especially her father.

 

[jackmell]

Jackmell, as a woman who well recalls teenage years and make-up quarrels with parents, I'd leave my daughter alone about it.

Hello Georgina. I wanted to emphasize the father-daughter engagement and not so much the makeup. A girl needs her dad in her life. I see many stories where her dad in not in her life. How does that affect her? I wonder if some of those women would have loved this sort of banter with their dad, and would have loved him to be more (lovingly) involved when she was a girl. It wasn't meant to be critical of her makeup I mean Jesus, I can't say nothing to her if she were mine even if I felt it was a little much? I don't think I could do that. I would just have to say something and hopefully she would take it as nothing more than fun bantering. That's what I would like anyway however I would not bring it up if I though she would take it wrong and be upset by it. But that's the point. If dad has cultivated a loving relationship with her since birth, she'd be use to this sort of fun banter and not be upset by it at all.

I think Taylor looks very pretty in that picture. The second I saw it I thought to myself, "jesus, you look pretty girl . . . ugh but what's all that stuff around your eyes?"

If she was mine, there is just no way I could keep quiet about it. I would just have to bring it up, just have to. :)

 

[BobG]

Concur.
I didn't use the word 'idiot'. Obviously Evo's parents had issues. I would have had strong words for them, especially her father.

Yeah, even my dad didn't make me do problems from college books at 8 years old. I just had to add up all of the bowling scores in my head, update everyone's average, and calculate the team handicap for the next week.

He did teach us a cool counting game for road trips, though. Seven kids, so we played sevens. You would work your way around the car, counting upward, with each kid saying the next number. Except if the number had a seven in it or was divisible by seven, you had to clap instead. If you messed up, you were out of the game and the last person standing won.

It was always great fun until we got up to the 7000's. So we had to modify the game so if the number had both a seven in it and was divisible by seven, you had to do a double clap. And if it had a seven in it and was a prime number, you had to put your finger inside your mouth and make that popping sound as you popped your finger out against the corner of your mouth.

About that time, my mom would start thinking about divorce. And cursing child custody laws that almost always gave custody to the mother.

 

[Evo]

I doubt that really, really strongly, Evo, because features are features. Make-up doesn't create them.

However, I do entirely understand your perception.

You haven't seen me without makeup. I'm a good portrait artist. The skilfull application of makeup is very much like doing a portrait. I can create cheekbones, get rid of droopy eyelids, define my jawline, etc...

I'm fake.

 

[physics girl phd]

Jackmell, as a woman who well recalls teenage years and make-up quarrels with parents, I'd leave my daughter alone about it. I'd make sure that she knew the proper quality products to buy so she didn't damage her eyes, and I'd make sure she attended a make-up course so she knew how to apply it properly. (I've taken professional make-up courses, but teenaged rarely listen to what their mothers have to say.) When they're using decent stuff for their skin and know how to apply it well, they can look great. Assuming they want to wear it. Commentary -- supposedly kidding or not -- isn't welcome.

Thanks for this note. I'll keep it in mind 18 yrs (or less) from now... YES! Little E is a year old! Growing so fast! :!)

 

[~christina~]

Yeah, even my dad didn't make me do problems from college books at 8 years old. I just had to add up all of the bowling scores in my head, update everyone's average, and calculate the team handicap for the next week.

He did teach us a cool counting game for road trips, though. Seven kids, so we played sevens. You would work your way around the car, counting upward, with each kid saying the next number. Except if the number had a seven in it or was divisible by seven, you had to clap instead. If you messed up, you were out of the game and the last person standing won.

It was always great fun until we got up to the 7000's. So we had to modify the game so if the number had both a seven in it and was divisible by seven, you had to do a double clap. And if it had a seven in it and was a prime number, you had to put your finger inside your mouth and make that popping sound as you popped your finger out against the corner of your mouth.

About that time, my mom would start thinking about divorce. And cursing child custody laws that almost always gave custody to the mother.

 

[Danger]

Um, Dave? How come you're well-versed in the cost of hookers?

They probably had to split the cost for one when they were kids.

I'm fake.

Nice try, but I still have that swimsuit photo of you on my desktop... so I know that the important bits are real.

If you take a look at my avatar, you'll see that I occasionally wear a tad too much make-up myself.

Despite my somewhat advanced years, I confess that I have an... appreciation that borders upon fetishism for the Goth look. Make-up, piercings, tats, non-traditional hairstyles, fangs... you name it. If she clanks or bites, I want her.
I also have a very strong attraction to the more standard version of beauty. Sophia Loren, Natalie Wood, Evo (yeah, you're in there whether or not you like it, Sweetheart)... and I firmly believe that Audrey Hepburn was the most beautiful woman who ever lived.
Still, all of that is superficial. If a total masterpiece of female construction turns out to be a *****, any sense of physical attraction immediately vanishes. Conversely, a couple of women who were (using my mother's terminology) "as homely as a mud fence" have begun to look quite pretty after some conversation.
Astro, your life contradicts your words in a way. This is certainly not implying any sort of attempted deception on your part, but perhaps something that has escaped your own notice. You would not have your black belts and degrees and ridiculously super-human physique had you not invested vast amounts of time, effort, and dedication into achieving them. I think that I know you well enough to say that you did so in order to better yourself in your own opinion rather than to mollify anyone else. Still, those factors are all sexual attractants in our species. For whatever reason it is done, one of the primary results of a man pumping iron or getting a nice haircut is the same as that of a woman applying mascara or donning a push-up bra. The only difference is that it doesn't wear off as quickly. I'm (almost) willing to bet that some part of your self-maintenance is out of respect for your wife, to show her that you love her enough to remain attractive to her even though you don't have to. You are one of those rare individuals who honestly doesn't give a **** what anyone else thinks about you as long as you're comfortable with yourself, but you relinquish some of that individuality for the sake of family and friends. Most people in developed countries don't have that luxury. Preening and primping, misguided or not, is in aid of gaining social acceptance. That can be for sexual purposes, to gain employment, to avoid a speeding ticket, or whatever else is needed.
For the record, I find the young lady in the OP photograph very hot. In fact, if only I could remember where I left that tub of Chrisco, there's an idea formulating...