What's the force moving electrons against E within copper-zinc

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the forces involved in the movement of electrons between copper and zinc when they come into contact, particularly focusing on the nature of the force that drives this movement against an electric field. The scope includes theoretical considerations of electrochemistry and the underlying principles of electron flow in conductive materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in static conditions, copper does not have an electric field, yet electrons flow from copper to zinc upon contact, raising the question of what force facilitates this movement against the electric field.
  • Another participant acknowledges the question as fundamental but does not provide an answer.
  • Several participants suggest reading articles on Volta potential and Galvani potential to understand the energy dynamics at the zinc-copper interface.
  • A participant interprets the first article as indicating that electrons in zinc have higher energy than those in copper, leading to a flow from zinc to copper, but questions remain about the nature of the force involved in this electron movement.
  • There is a query regarding whether the chemical potential mentioned in the second article is a scalar function and if its gradient can be interpreted as a force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specific force responsible for the electron movement, and multiple interpretations and questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of forces and potentials discussed, as well as the assumptions about energy states of electrons in different materials. The discussion does not clarify the mathematical relationships or the implications of the chemical potential gradient.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electrochemistry, materials science, or anyone exploring the principles of electron behavior in conductive materials.

Tekk
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I have a piece of copper in static condition. Since copper is a conductor, within the copper there is no electric field. Strange comes when I bring this copper in contact with a piece of zinc: in a tiny interval of time, certain amount of electrons would flow from copper to zinc.
I suspect that during this interval, electric field would be created and in order to move electrons against this field, there must be a non-electrical force. So the question is: what's this force?
I have searched this topic and answer are chemical force/potential etc. I would be very appreciated if anyone could give a force which the Newton 3rd Law could apply to, such as the Coulomb force, gravitational force.
 
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I offer no answer, but I think you've asked an excellent and quite fundamental question.
 
Drakkith said:
Try this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_potential
Edit: And this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvani_potential
The first article explains why electrons move within zinc-copper interface by introducing energy required for the most energetic electron to escape from a metal (so-called work function). It is said that the most energetic electrons in zinc have more energy than those in copper. And because electrons in zinc love to stay in a low energy state, they flow from zinc to copper. Is my understanding correct?

Besides, the article has not discussed what the energy is and what force is applied when electrons flow from zinc to copper. In the second article you have cited, the energy is called chemical potential. Is it a scalar function? Can I take the gradient of that chemical potential? If yes, does the gradient make sense as some kind of force?
 
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