News What's your comment on the debate between Bush and Kerry?

[Moonbear]

What was probably most important: kerry had good hair.

LOL! I thought Bush looked a bit haggard when the debate started, but they must have gotten a better camera angle on him or something once it got underway.

 

[Loren Booda]

I could look the accomplished Kerry in the eye; when I did look at Bush, he appeared at worst like Alfred E. Newman - "What, me worry"? I was embarrassed for him. Kerry was a skilled and presentable debater, Bush showed himself to be inept in comparison. I think America has a new, positive idea as to what Kerry would bring as president. If Bush continues the poor performance, the election may swing on the debates.

 

[Smurf]

I predicted such a thing would happen, when Kerry wins the election I'm going to tell you all that I told you so.

 

[kat]

I didn't really hear Kerry giving any specifics about his plan for Iraq except the one comment almost at the end.

 

[Spectre32]

Yeah I don't really like debates, but i will tell you this.. My dad was in Vietnam as a front line medic. He was in the airfoce and got droped outta helicopters to go patch up the wounded. HE overall dosn't like either of them, but what really got him pissed off at kerry was that he said something in his closing speech about his serivce in Vietnam. Well I can say is, if you did do something good in that Hellish place, please answer me as to why your own "unit"(Swift Boat Vets) is condemming you. I think he stomped himself there. Over all my views haven't changed.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

 

[Gokul43201]

Wolf Blitzer just asked Karen Hughes if she believes A.Q. Khan (who was responsible for nuclear proliferation & sale of nuclear materiel and technology to DPRK and Libya) has been brought to justice, as Bush just claimed.

She replied that "The AQ Khan network has been seriously crippled, and President Bush ...blah blah (unrelated to question)". This is a nearly verbatim quote.

Wolf had to repeat the question because it wasn't answered the first time, adding this time if she believed Khan had been brought to justice, seeing that he had been pardoned and is a free man serving no punishment whatsoever. Again a dodge... <shrug>

 

[member 5645]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

I'm a Bush supporter, at this point, and I agree.
Again, I think this is a tactic and Bush's expectations have been lowered. The next two debates will finish with Bush as a win, and then tied (atleast in the poll's eyes)

 

[Gokul43201]

On NBC, a group of undecided voters in Ohio were polled about their impressions of the debate. Unanimously they declared Kerry the winner. Several commented that he conveyed greater confidence as a leader.

I think what they mean is that his words actually convey information.

Bill Hemmer of CNN was 3 blocks away from me, at the Ohio State University, doing the same. Results haven't been released yet (and they had meters where they could relay real time emotion) but it looked like the women liked Bush better, especially when he said "you can not denigrate the soldiers". The men seemed to like Kerry better.

 

[Gokul43201]

Say phatmonky, did this debate affect your slant in any way ? Did anyone gain/lose points in your evaluation ?

Who else here is closer to the fence than the average liberal/conservative ?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The first debate is historically the most important. If this is their strategy then it could well backfire. Personally, I don't this was the case. I think that for the first time people are seeing Bush held accountable for real answers.


Edit: wow this is moving fast. I was responding to phatmonky

I'm a Bush supporter, at this point, and I agree.
Again, I think this is a tactic and Bush's expectations have been lowered. The next two debates will finish with Bush as a win, and then tied (atleast in the poll's eyes)

 

[kat]

I think this is similar to the Gore debate. Those of us who debate and follow reporting and soundbytes on a regular basis are probably following the details of the debate closer then those who don't. Others will be hearing only the strongest repeated soundbytes. Repeating and ending with strong statements IS Bushes strength. For those who are not politically savvy...that will be what sticks in their mind over the next few days.

 

[check]

I thought Al Gore did a far better job than Bush in 2000.

I totally agree, but Gore did come off as a 'know-it-all' which many people disliked. Too bad though, would have made a MUCH better president than Bush...but who wouldn't?

Anyway, Kerry did a MUCH better job than Bush, IMO. Kerry gave good, articulate answers, and he did express his plans. The voters now know much more about him.

Bush was unimpressive and at sometimes even laughable. Actually, I was watching it with a buddy and at least half a dozen times we burst out laughing. Oh my...

It's going to be interesting to see the new polls after this one.

 

[member 5645]

Say phatmonky, did this debate affect your slant in any way ? Did anyone gain/lose points in your evaluation ?

Who else here is closer to the fence than the average liberal/conservative ?

I only caught half of the debates so I can only comment on the general feeling. I'm looking for full footage online right now and will make a full out post when I do. I started giving my impressions so far, but I will reserve them for when I make a post about the whole thing :)

 

[kat]

IET update...

Symbol Bid Ask Last Low High Average
DEM04_G52 0.089 0.092 0.089 0.088 0.125 0.099
DEM04_L52 0.221 0.232 0.234 0.209 0.266 0.234
REP04_L52 0.194 0.195 0.194 0.192 0.228 0.202
REP04_G52 0.487 0.490 0.496 0.415 0.507 0.480

Using Gokuls method:
K= $0.31; B= $0.681 (Opening : K = $0.338 ; B = $0.682)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes like,

Q: How do you respond to allegations that you lied about Iraq

A Bush: [long, silent, deer-in-the-headlights look]...um, er, I don't take it personally.

Jim Lerher: um...okay.

 

[Smurf]

Yeah I don't really like debates, but i will tell you this.. My dad was in Vietnam as a front line medic. He was in the airfoce and got droped outta helicopters to go patch up the wounded. HE overall dosn't like either of them, but what really got him pissed off at kerry was that he said something in his closing speech about his serivce in Vietnam. Well I can say is, if you did do something good in that Hellish place, please answer me as to why your own "unit"(Swift Boat Vets) is condemming you. I think he stomped himself there. Over all my views haven't changed.

They're condemning him because they were paid to.

The fact that he won (not 1 but) 4 medals, 3 Purple Hearts and 1 Silver star (last time I checked) Convinces me he saw combat somewhere, either that or this is the biggest military scam I've ever heard of.

 

[Moonbear]

Here's my report back from another current events board. I was expecting a flurry of posts there about the debate and went to check them out. For the past 6 months or so, there have been a clearly divided band of Bush supporters and Kerry supporters, neither wavering from their sides. To my shock and amazement, quite a few of the Bush supporters were starting to waver after tonight's debate and the Kerry supporters seem to be even more solidly on his side. Some of these folks I thought were die-hard conservatives who would never even consider voting for anyone other than a republican, but even they admitted to being impressed with Kerry. He came across not only polished, with good answers, but as "likeable." Remember, even though Gore did really well in the 2000 debates, he never connected with voters and never came across as likeable. Anyway, it seems this debate actually got people thinking and not just voting party lines. Even if in the end people previously supporting Bush stay with Bush, I think they are at least more willing to listen to what Kerry has to say now and make a more informed choice. That is a huge leap forward!

 

[kat]

They're condemning him because they were paid to.

The fact that he won (not 1 but) 4 medals, 3 Purple Hearts and 1 Silver star (last time I checked) Convinces me he saw combat somewhere, either that or this is the biggest military scam I've ever heard of.

Oh BULL****, nobody paid my father for condemning him, nobody paid his father for condemning him...MY father was right there at monkey mountain, saaaammeee time period as Kerry...only my father didn't abuse the system to get out after 3.25 months. There is also a rapidly building case that it WAS a scam, if it wasn't then Kerry could just release his after action report for PH#1 along with the rest of his records.

 

[Smurf]

I was referring to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (only public group I know of - Canadian)

Your father is one of the swift boat veterans for truth?

 

[graphic7]

Something Kerry kept mentioning caught my attention - he kept bringing up his service in Vietnam. On the same note, I noticed something that Bush was doing that caught my eye - not mentioning any part of his military service (even if it was only in the National Guard). Perhaps, Bush *knows* his service record isn't admirable of any attention whatsoever, therefore, he knows it's not smart of him to mention it. This might be hard for you to admit Kat, but don't you see that was somewhat validating Kerry's service record?

 

[kat]

Something Kerry kept mentioning caught my attention - he kept bringing up his service in Vietnam. On the same note, I noticed something that Bush was doing that caught my eye - not mentioning any part of his military service (even if it was only in the National Guard). Perhaps, Bush *knows* his service record isn't admirable of any attention whatsoever, therefore, he knows it's not smart of him to mention it. This might be hard for you to admit Kat, but don't you see that was somewhat validating Kerry's service record?

Well, I think that Bush directly complimented Kerry on his service, both in vietnam and his 20 years as a senator. I don't think Bush will mention his service for two reasons. 1. It isn't going to benefit him at this point, in any shape or form. and 2. People aren't going to judge Bush on his guard service at this point, they are going to judge him on the past 4 years.
Kerry doesn't have that...he can only talk about his Senate experience which is not going to win him the presidency, it has never worked for any other candidate and he's more to the left then any other presidential candidate with senate experience. Senators don't do well in presidential races. Because of that he has only his vietnam experience...or his post vietnam experience..which might appeal to some of you..but not to a majority!

Finally, it's not up to Bush to validate Kerry's vietnam experience. It's up to those of us who were effected by his actions. Other vet's and POW"s, and their families. Honestly, Bush could tell me that Kerry was the greatest hero since John Wayne..and I'd say "screw you" in a capitol way.

 

[Smurf]

Your right, In fact I think it was only brought up once by the dude asking the questions...
BTW, who writes those questions?

 

[kat]

Some interesting commentary being drudged up at http://www.drudgereport.com/ ...developing...

FLASH: Kerry stated: 'That's why they had to close down the subway in New York when the Republican Convention was there.' (Driving home point that Bush as not done enough to protect the country.)

The NYC subway did not close at all during the convention, according to a report on cable outlet NY1...

LOCKHART: DEBATE CONSENSUS A 'DRAW'

Unbeknownst to Kerry adviser Mike McCurry, a C-SPAN camera quietly followed McCurry as he found Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart on Spin Alley floor and asked him his impression of the debate. Lockhart candidly said to McCurry , “The consensus is it was a draw.”

 

[Saint]

what doe it mean "'Zingers and gotchas'"

 

[Gokul43201]

Okay folks, Kerry Won the Debate, big time...not that that necessarily makes a difference.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/

http://www.cnn.com/ poll says Kerry won (79%), Bush won (18%), even (3%)

Couldn't find a poll at FOXNews.com

 

[kat]

I was referring to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (only public group I know of - Canadian)

Your father is one of the swift boat veterans for truth?

Listen, a mans unit doesn't turn on him like that for money. a few men maybe..but not so overwhelming. His father, a vietnam vet recognizes that. Hence his statement. My father was Airforce out of the same general area that Kerry patroled, he came back just after Kerry's senate speech.
There are several very large groups, Vietnam Veterans against Kerry, Vietnam POW's against Kerry. Note, none of these are "for" Bush.

 

[Saint]

i don't know much about american politics, however,
our newspapers here have had a very bad comment on bush, bush had made iraq war a second vietnam war, US is in mire now, stuck in iraq, can't go further, can't retreat!

 

[Saint]

read this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5932469/

 

[Moonbear]

what doe it mean "'Zingers and gotchas'"

I'm not sure I'll explain this exactly right, because they are slang, so don't have easy definitions, but essentially mean witty, pointed remarks. Gotcha originates from "got you" as in I win (if you tricked somebody with a joke, you might tell that person "gotcha" when you reveal they've been fooled). Zingers imply more of a sting to the words.