News What's your comment on the debate between Bush and Kerry?

[Gokul43201]

"I think that Kerry did a good job." (Sen. John McCain, MSNBC, 9/30/04)

"Kerry was forceful and articulate." (Bill Kristol, Fox News Channel, 9/30/04)

"We saw Bush smirking...Kerry was more poised." (Wolf Blitzer, CNN, 9/30/04)

"Kerry's done a good job of becoming Mr. Homeland Security." (Jon Meacham, Newsweek on MSNBC, 9/30/04)

I'm not sure where Saint pulled these from (probably some liberal discussion group) or what the point here is but they are definitely not all representative of the intent of the speaker.

For instance, I heard the John McCain quote, live last night. The sentence before the quoted one was, "Bush won the debate."

Of course, he had to say that, but that's a different matter.

 

[Gokul43201]

Just to recapture some of the memorable moments (pre-empting some of the ads that will no-doubt come out in the next few days) : http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/041001/photos_lf_afp/041001180150_v79quxjw_photo0&e=7

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is an interesting quote from a previously undecided voter on a PBS panel.

Before the debate I thought we had a bumbler - Kerry - and a bungler - Bush. After the debate, I thought, Kerry's not such a bumbler, but we still have a bungler.

Another interesting comment from a previously undecided voter was that of a woman who is most concerned about nuclear materials. She pointed out that by addressing the issue of X-Soviet's nuclear materials, as he did, Kerry wants to secure the materials before it reaches the hands of terrorists. It seems that Bush was not willing to address this issue. "[approx] He wants to wait until the terrorists get the materials".

Also, I like this re Iraq:
Bush: Kerry has the same plan as us.
Bush: Kerry's plan won't work.

I thought Kerry scored a huge hit when he quoted from Bush Senior's book.

You know, the president's father did not go into Iraq, into Baghdad, beyond Basra. And the reason he didn't is, he said -- he wrote in his book -- because there was no viable exit strategy. And he said our troops would be occupiers in a bitterly hostile land. That's exactly where we find ourselves today. There's a sense of American occupation.

The only building that was guarded when the troops went into Baghdad was the oil ministry. We didn't guard the nuclear facilities.

We didn't guard the foreign office, where you might have found information about weapons of mass destruction. We didn't guard the borders.

His father also had a genuine coalition.

What I can't understand is how Bush can keep saying this:

As well, help is on the way, but it's certainly hard to tell it when he voted against the $87 billion supplemental [bill] to provide equipment for our troops, and then said he actually did vote for it before he voted against it.

Are people really falling for this nonsense? These were separate bills with different attachments and Kerry insisted on talking about how to pay for this 87 billion. In other words, he was being responsible. Bush keeps using these same erroneous and dishonest claims and people actually believe it. I guess this goes back to the old adage that anything said a thousand times becomes true.

 

[wasteofo2]

There's also the fact that Sean Hannity admitted Kerry won the debate on Hannity and Colmes last night. Of course he went on to say that Bush won on certain points/aspects of the debate, but the fact he admitted Kerry won on anything at all shows how amazing he did.

 

[BoulderHead]

I haven’t read this thread because, well, politics bores me and this thread is growing too rapidly courtesy of all you enthusiasts. Still, as I’m now temporarily residing in the US I had access and did in fact view roughly 60% of the pappy-show first debate. My thoughts; Senator Kerry has a good speaking voice and his responses were presented well. President Bush, on the other hand, is not as articulate and clearly struggled over what to say several times. It was obvious he took strong objection some of the comments made by Senator Kerry and wanted very much to retort effectively but was not able to. Still, I have little respect for professional politicians so I would not hold this ineptitude against President Bush, though I would not vote for either candidate. I cut short the debate for a rerun of I Love Lucy.

 

[Gokul43201]

It was obvious he took strong objection some of the comments made by Senator Kerry and wanted very much to retort effectively but was not able to.

You too get the feeling he was muttering under his breath, something to the effect of, "Just let me get down there, and I'll clobber your little pinko @$$" !

 

[BobG]

If you read his lips, you'd realized he was muttering "This is hard work".

 

[omin]

On the first debate.

Kerry came out ahead. Then fell behind. Then came up from that and pulled forward to the end. Kerry's ahead in terms of the first debate.

Bush's downfall is his positive in his ideology and debating style. He is a living epitomy of compomised values, and political theory mental disorder. Two examples:

His Big Ideology: He's convinced citizens in our country it's okay to murder innoncent Iraqis for oil. We've been doing it. We're doing it now. He wants four more years of it.

And in the debate: Where are we getting the money for these things Kerry says he's going to do? Bush acts like there is no choice for Americans but to murder, then steal.

Kerry has postives mixed with his negatives too, but really only on the war in Iraq. He needs to get us out in four months, compensate for the Republican terrorism upon Iraq, instead of four years

But, he has idealogical clearity that is uncomprimissed on many issues that will create efficiency rather than cost money, which is where Bushs tries to confuse the argument. A change of velocity will take less energy than the energy saved fromt the change. That's what Bush doesn't want you to see in Kerry's plan.

I find it humorous that Kerry wants to make a deal to buy some of North Koreas Nukes. I'm sure they'll have a few extra behind for further talks. Good for N. Korea.

 

[Loren Booda]

What if we, as U.S. citizens, had the duty to vote against fomenting war in Iraq? See you November 2.

 

[Gokul43201]

Newsweek claims Kerry's up : http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=2&u=/ap/20041003/ap_on_el_pr/bush

 

[kat]

Newsweek claims Kerry's up : http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=2&u=/ap/20041003/ap_on_el_pr/bush

Gokul, do you have the internals for the new newsweek polls? As I remember it the previous Newsweek poll was heavily weighted on the republican side which would of course skew results in favor of repubs. Frankly, I think newsweek weights their polls to make news and are not reflective of any reliable statistics.

 

[Gokul43201]

I don't trust this poll either...but it seemed to be the first one that came out. I'm going to wait till tomorrow; we should hear more, then.

 

[kat]

There's a warped part of my phsyci that's rubbing it's hands in anticipation of the surprises of October...any guesses as to what they might be?

 

[tumor]

it was painfull to watch,

 

[Gokul43201]

Yet another IET update (for whoever's interested):

On 10/01/04, before first debate : K = $0.338 ; B = $0.682
Immediately after debate (10:30pm ET) : K = $0.333 ; B = $0.682
Next morning (10:00am ET) : K = $0.352 ; B = $0.651

One week later, nearly (10/08/04) : K = $0.445 ; B = $0.568

 

[BobG]

There's a warped part of my phsyci that's rubbing it's hands in anticipation of the surprises of October...any guesses as to what they might be?

A new explanation for Bush's pauses, facial expressions, and hunched posture during the first debate, perhaps?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index_np.html
http://www.electoral-vote2.com/images/bulge.jpg

 

[Moonbear]

A new explanation for Bush's pauses, facial expressions, and hunched posture during the first debate, perhaps?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index_np.html
http://www.electoral-vote2.com/images/bulge.jpg

I've seen people posting this elsewhere, mostly the image shown in the first link. From that one, I just thought it was nothing more than an odd wrinkle in his jacket when he leaned forward. The second link has an image with a touch better clarity. It actually looks more like he may be wearing a bullet-proof vest under his clothing. That might seem like a reasonable security precaution for a president. But, it still could just be the fabric of his jacket pulling in a funny way. It's a silly rumor that anyone was feeding him answers.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Is everyone ready for number two?

If Kerry kicks butt again tonight, Bush is in deep doo doo. I really expect Kerry to do better here than in the last debate but he had more to prove last time - he needed to look presidential, and strong - so the impact may not be so great; even if he does very well. I also think Kerry stands a better chance of getting too complicated and losing people this time. Bush may crash and burn on the facts.

 

[graphic7]

I'm looking forward very much to this debate tonight. There shouldn't be so much repetition considering that tonight's debate is not about foreign policy - Iraq, in general. I'm going to be watching to see if Kerry or Bush stray from the subject matter and go into some foreign issue, Iraq, for example.

But as you said, Ivan, Kerry is going to have to be very careful not to complicate things. Edwards was even having a hard time defining the 'global test' quote. I think as long as Kerry stays with the facts, he's got Bush beat.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bush is now officially the first president in 72 years to lose jobs on his watch - John Kerry; responding to today's jobs report

So we have the greatest blunder in foreign policy, and the greatest failure in creating jobs in 72 years. Bush is quickly gaining historical status.

Edit: misquote, sorry about that.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think Bush'll do better this time. For one thing, he'll be better prepared, and will be coached to not repeat his earlier screw-ups. And it's a more informal setting, and the speakers get feedback from the audience. Bush thrives on that. Kerry tends to be more professorish, which worked well for the formal, strictly regulated first debate, but could work against him now.

 

[klusener]

I think this has been a good start for Kerry, but Bush has really learned some few lessons from the last debate: not look like a chimpanzee and not smirk a lot...

 

[graphic7]

Bush made himself look like a child when he violated the rules.

 

[Moonbear]

Bush made himself look like a child when he violated the rules.

He's proving that he's impatient and impulsive by continually jumping up and rebutting when the moderator hasn't allowed it. But, I agree, he's learned some lessons from last time. Was pretty fidgety in the beginning, and still seemed to be making some faces...I think he was trying hard to not smirk. Instead of smirking, he's spending some time thinking about his answers while Kerry is talking.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If you're a Redsocks fan? whoops!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

On the other hand, "if you want to be popular in the halls of Europe...". Bush's language towards Europe has been harsh at least twice.

Spin: How do you build a coalition if you insult your allies?

Bush is not making sense. He stated or implied that taxing small business owners [making over 200,000 per year] through personal income tax reduces expansion and hiring. This is not true. The personal tax only affects net income after operating expenses - including employee salaries and benefits.

 

[Moonbear]

He never answered that question about mending the hard feelings of our allies (or is that former allies) toward us, instead he told us that he made a lot of unpopular decisions. Duh! We knew that part, that's why they asked the question. So, I guess no plan to fix it.

He also had a tough time answering about the environment. His entire speech pattern changed from the tone he's held the rest of the debate.

 

[Moonbear]

Just to be fair here...Kerry has also stumbled a few times in this debate. Both times dealing with medical issues. First on medicare, the second on stem cell research. It's clear that his strength is not in understanding medicine or medical research.

 

[motai]

A minute or two ago Bush said he wanted to follow a "strict constructionist" version of the U.S. Constitution... the only problem is that nothing new could be done without adding an amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Anyway, I thought this issue was debated and decided on (with loose constructionist winning) between Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson...

 

[Spectre32]

My favorite was the Lumber yard commen, from Kerry to bush.. That was almost as classic as the "Global Test" statement.. Or Edwards bringing in Dick's gay daughter