What's your comment on the debate between Bush and Kerry?

[Ivan Seeking]

Regarding worman who asked about abortion: You can see in her eyes that this issue is everything. This I think drives a large portion of Bush devotees. For a large percentage of those who support Bush on this issue, I doubt anything else really matters.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm watching audience faces too. Most just look bored, but I've seen a few looking like they were in pain during these last few questions on abortion.

 

[Moonbear]

Regarding worman who asked about abortion: You can see in her eyes that this issue is everything. This I think drives a large portion of Bush devotees. For those who support Bush on this issue, I doubt anything else really matters.

I think there certainly is a group of voters who do base their decision entirely on this issue. I wonder why they think it's okay to send young men out to Iraq to kill and be killed. It's this inconsistency that bugs me about this more than that these people have a different opinion of when life or personhood begins.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I predict that Kerry wins the debate: 55%, 45%.

Kerry gains another 0.2% in the popular vote over the next seven days.

I'm sure someone can find a poll that agrees with my prediction.

...[edit] I'm guessing it won't be kat.

 

[Gokul43201]

Okay folks...end of part II.

 

[Moonbear]

This one was at least a lot closer than the last one. No embarrassing performance by Bush. I think 45% will go to each side and 10% will say it was a tie. We need JimmyP over here to give us the odds on our bets

 

[HazZy]

I think there certainly is a group of voters who do base their decision entirely on this issue. I wonder why they think it's okay to send young men out to Iraq to kill and be killed. It's this inconsistency that bugs me about this more than that these people have a different opinion of when life or personhood begins.

maybe because the men and women in iraq made a choice to join the military? comparing the two simply isn't realistic.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This one was at least a lot closer than the last one. No embarrassing performance by Bush. I think 45% will go to each side and 10% will say it was a tie. We need JimmyP over here to give us the odds on our bets

all tie votes go to Kerry.

Really, it will probably go down as a tie.

 

[kawikdx225]

Mark just said Kerry is full of BS about Patriot act!

 

[selfAdjoint]

I think Kerry will go up a few points, but not because of this debate. Some of the questions and answers were a litttle technical, and I think by the end only the partisans were watching. The Kerry bounce has a little further to go based on the events of this week (the WMd report, Bremer, etc., not to mention the jobs disappointment). Whether that and the expected drop in Bush's popularity will carry through to election day is anybody's guess.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is a classic American horse race. In spite of my feelings about Bush, I love watching the process and drama as it unfolds - democracy in action - with each candidate grasping for those undecided votes. Each trying to say exactly the right things to the right people in the right way...each trying to walk a tight-rope and balance the truth with spin...great stuff!

 

[Gokul43201]

I believe I'm the only one here that thinks Kerry did a lot better this time.

 

[Tigers2B1]

Well I'll add this --- the farts over at the Democratic Underground (a heavily traveled Internet Board) are once again fouling the 'vote as you go' Internet instant polls with their planned gang bangs. It's Kerry in a landslide! Hell, Kerry could have killed a baby on TV and it would have been 'Kerry by a landslide' with those half-wits. What a pissing contest.

 

[Gokul43201]

So just ignore the internet polls, as any sensible person would anyway.

 

[Moonbear]

Well I'll add this --- the farts over at the Democratic Underground (a heavily traveled Internet Board) are once again fouling the 'vote as you go' Internet instant polls with their planned gang bangs. It's Kerry in a landslide! Hell, Kerry could have killed a baby on TV and it would have been 'Kerry by a landslide' with those half-wits. What a pissing contest.

What's to say the rabid rightwing aren't doing the same thing? (And before anyone jumps on me for this, I'm not referring to all conservatives, not even most, but the counterpart to the rabid left...but that doesn't have the same ring of alliteration...who think it's going to make a difference to vote a few thousand times on the internet polls). I have to say this is the first election that I've followed so closely. I've never been very interested in politics, and have always been one of those people undecided until the last moment, mostly because I'm a cynic and don't trust any politician to keep their promises. But, with this one, it's really fun to follow. Or maybe it's because I have a stronger opinion of one candidate over the other in advance.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

an early return from Nightline:
Kerry: 44%
Bush: 41%
Tie: 13%

there were slighty more democrats than republicans polled.

Edit: Charley Gibson was just talking about the rules for the debate. There were 52 lines of text that described how the coin toss would be handled.

 

[BobG]

I saw an edge for Bush in delivery. He cleaned up a lot of mistakes from the first debate. Moving around the stage improves his delivery. His messages are simple.

Both misuse numbers badly. Bush tosses out the number of jobs created over the last year, Kerry tosses out the number of jobs lost over the past 4 years (and limits his number to a particular class of jobs, at that). Neither are particularly relevant in themselves. There's a reason for that. People don't handle numbers very well.

A more effective number for Kerry would really be how many jobs/month does the economy have to add for a healthy economy? How many jobs were added? Except, that raises questions that can't be answered in 2 minutes - why does the economy have to add 170,000 jobs/month? Instead they opt for the numbers that are easier to explain.

Numbers really created problems for them when Charlie Gibson pressed them on how they plan to cut the deficit with no new taxes. (That's because neither will.)

The lasting impression from the first debate was "It's hard work" being President. The lasting impression from the second debate is "I have a plan." But, can you summarize that plan in clear, simple terms in less than 2 minutes?

Rather than try to explain the numbers or nuances of why you supported or opposed a particular bill, it's more important to get your overall view across. I thought Bush did a better job at that. If he loses this debate, it's because people don't believe in him anymore, not because he didn't get his message across.

 

[Gokul43201]

Both misuse numbers badly. Bush tosses out the number of jobs created over the last year, Kerry tosses out the number of jobs lost over the past 4 years (and limits his number to a particular class of jobs, at that).

What I find surprising is that neither of them debunks the fallacious statistics of the other.

Okay, for instance, this one struck me as a little odd : Bush keeps claiming that he's created 1.8 million new jobs this year. The last I remember (I think according to the 2000 census), the population growth rate was a little over 1%. Now 1.8 million is 1.2% of the total workforce of about 150 million. So, it seems to me that the job creation rate is just about keeping pace with the population growth.

Nothing to write home about...unless I'm making a mistake somewhere.

 

[wasteofo2]

What I find surprising is that neither of them debunks the fallacious statistics of the other.

Okay, for instance, this one struck me as a little odd : Bush keeps claiming that he's created 1.8 million new jobs this year. The last I remember (I think according to the 2000 census), the population growth rate was a little over 1%. Now 1.8 million is 1.2% of the total workforce of about 150 million. So, it seems to me that the job creation rate is just about keeping pace with the population growth.

Nothing to write home about...unless I'm making a mistake somewhere.

When your previous years saw the loss of millions of jobs, any net growth of jobs is something to write home about.

It's like when a 2 year old learns not to crap their pants anymore.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Okay its time for number three.

Is this where Kerry takes a defintive lead, or blows it? Will Bush keep his cool; and are his batteries charged? Expectations are high on both sides, and whatever happens, Tim Russert expects the race to open up after this - with a clear leader emerging before the election.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I heard an obvious point made this morning about Bush's attacks. How can someone be a flip-flopper and the most liberal senator in Washington at the same time?

President Oxymoron?

 

[check]

Oooo I'm excited. It all comes down to this!
"The winner will be showered with praise! The loser will be taunted and booed until my throat is sore!" -Homer Simpson

 

[Gokul43201]

Here goes...

 

[check]

So according to GW tonight, he didn't say on 3/13/02: "I don't know where he is. I, ah [laugh] I repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." in reference to Osama Bin Laden.
Interesting...

 

[Moonbear]

Bush should really avoid jokes...none of them comes across right, and just makes him sound even dumber.

And...what an idiotic response to the question of whether being gay is a choice! He said he doesn't know! Well, I already knew he makes no effort to know anything about science, especially biology.

 

[motai]

And...what an idiotic response to the question of whether being gay is a choice! He said he doesn't know! Well, I already knew he makes no effort to know anything about science, especially biology.

Interesting. I thought the traditional Republican viewpoint was that being gay was learned from the parents.

 

[graphic7]

Interesting. I thought the traditional Republican viewpoint was that being gay was learned from the parents.

What has irritated me the most is Bush's response to the question pertaining to what he would tell a person who had lost their job because it had been outsourced. He replied by saying, they need more education. In fact, many of the jobs that demand a high education are the ones that are being outsourced. Very irritating.

 

[Moonbear]

What has irritated me the most is Bush's response to the question pertaining to what he would tell a person who had lost their job because it had been outsourced. He replied by saying, they need more education. In fact, many of the jobs that demand a high education are the ones that are being outsourced. Very irritating.

Maybe we should outsource him!

 

[Gokul43201]

Why does Bush look like a deer caught in headlights ?

Q : "Is it time to raise the minimum wage ?"

A : (Bush) "We passed the No Child Left Behind Law..." (words "minimum wage" never heard in 90 seconds of talking)

 

[graphic7]

I also love Bush's reponse to the flu question. He replied that Canada had been helping the United States solve the problem. If I remember correctly, Bush badmouthed (second debate) Canada's pharmaceutical program by saying they had not checked the quality of the generic drugs that the United States could end up importing. That's a double standard if I've ever seen one.

I think Kerry has been very sharp on pointing out Bush's conflicting statements tonight.