When a new house is built in a rural area not in a neighborhood

  • Thread starter Thread starter stickythighs
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Area
AI Thread Summary
When building a new house in a rural area, the responsibility for the costs of running a power line from the nearest street often falls on the homeowner, especially if extensive trenching is required. Utility companies typically cover the line up to the junction box, but any additional work on the homeowner's side may incur charges. The installation process can also be delayed if the utility company is not contacted early, potentially leading to significant wait times. Additionally, local regulations may require building permits and compliance with codes, particularly for permanent structures. Homeowners should consult with utility providers and local authorities before purchasing unimproved land to understand all requirements and potential costs.
stickythighs
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
When a new house is built in a rural area that is not in a residential neighborhood, who pays for the costs of running a power line from the nearest street that has a power line to the new house? Does the utility company pay to set up the power line to the one isolated house, or does the owner of the house have to pay for the power line to be set up?

I imagine that if the new house was, say, a five hundred yards from the nearest street with a power line, the costs of running a power line to the house would be over $10,000.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It depends. The utility company will pay for the line up to the junction box, but if extensive trenching, etc... needs to be done to furnish service just to one location, you may have to pay for anything on your side of the property or even to the junction. Also, you are subject to their "planning" schedule. I have had many clients with new office buildings where the contractor forgot to contact the utility company and there were delays at times of up to 6 months to get the job done.

In even a regular home, if anything happens on your property on your side of the easment, like a break in a water, sewage, or gasline, you have to pay for the repairs, which can be quite costly.

If you are planning to purchase an unimproved lot, there are so many things that you have to check before you can get a building permit. Before you buy, contact the electric company, and any other utility first to get their opinion.
 
Evo said:
It depends. The utility company will pay for the line up to the junction box, but if extensive trenching, etc... needs to be done to furnish service just to one location, you may have to pay for anything on your side of the property or even to the junction.

What is a junction box?


If you are planning to purchase an unimproved lot, there are so many things that you have to check before you can get a building permit. Before you buy, contact the electric company, and any other utility first to get their opinion.

Would I have to have a building permit in order to build a small one room cabin on some land?
 
stickythighs said:
What is a junction box?
Where the wire from the electricity board connects to the wire to your house.



Would I have to have a building permit in order to build a small one room cabin on some land?
Depends on your local bylaws. It could be difficult to get permission to build a small cabin in a rural area if it protected / green belt.
 
stickythighs said:
What is a junction box?
It may be the box, it may be aerial wire from a pole, it just depends on if the wiring is under or above ground. It is just basically the closest point in their network from which they would deliver service to you.

Would I have to have a building permit in order to build a small one room cabin on some land?
For a residence, you need to check to see what is needed.
 
Evo said:
It depends. The utility company will pay for the line up to the junction box, but if extensive trenching, etc... needs to be done to furnish service just to one location, you may have to pay for anything on your side of the property or even to the junction.

The crux of the matter seems to be in the "extensive trenching, etc." part. Could you elaborate on what might constitute "extensive trenching, ect"?

I'm kind of confused on why you told me that the utility company will pay for the line up to the junction box. Are you saying that the utility company will pay for the power line from the source of electricity (the nuclear power plant, or whatever it is) to the junction box? The power line from the nuclear power plant (or whatever) to the junction box was there before the cabin was built.


Let me put it to you this way. We'll assume I have built a cabin that is five hundred yards from the nearest street with a power line. The junction would be at that street five hundred yards away. There are no trees in the way. Would the utility company pay for the 500 yards of power line going from the junction box to my cabin?
 
stickythighs said:
Let me put it to you this way. We'll assume I have built a cabin that is five hundred yards from the nearest street with a power line. The junction would be at that street five hundred yards away. There are no trees in the way. Would the utility company pay for the 500 yards of power line going from the junction box to my cabin?
First, it depends if they have facilities. They will have to have their engineers check, if there are not enough to run a drop to your house, then it could become a major project, there are so many "things" that could come into play, you would need to contact the local company and give them the plot number and have them do a facility check.

Is electricity the only utility you want?
 
Evo said:
First, it depends if they have facilities.

What does that mean?


They will have to have their engineers check, if there are not enough to run a drop to your house, then it could become a major project,

If there are not enough what to run a drop to my house? Facilities?



Is electricity the only utility you want?

Electricity is the only utility I would want from the utility company. I would get water from a well. If I had gas appliances, I could buy the gas through a company that's not the utility company.
 
At some point it gets cheaper and easier to set yourself up with an off-grid electrical system. I haven't done the research, but would be unsurprised if $10,000 were on the cusp for that.

Since utilities are government monopolies, they've got all kinds of strange rules and pricing arrangements. The best way to find answers to your question is to call and talk to the local utility.
 
  • #10
stickythighs said:
What does that mean?

If there are not enough what to run a drop to my house? Facilities?

I think you should think "Capacity" here - not so much facility. If the utility doesn't have enough capacity in the lines - it may be a consideration. But utilities will see you as incremental business and unless you are looking for a dramatic service requirement, and maybe even if you are that's their business after all, I doubt this will be a problem. I'd guess they will find a way to beef up their delivery at no cost to you. But if you do have a long run from the road to the house, they may or may not have a policy to recover those costs. You really need to check with the utility about specific installation.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Facilities is the term used that includes both the physical "parts" and "capacity", so yes, a normal person would think capacity. :smile:
 
  • #12
Evo said:
Facilities is the term used that includes both the physical "parts" and "capacity", so yes, a normal person would think capacity. :smile:

Arggh! What is capacity?
 
  • #13
stickythighs said:
Arggh! What is capacity?
That would be the amount of electric power they can send to your house.
 
  • #14
Capacity is the amount of power that you will need to run the electrical things in a house. The entrance (junction box between the meter and your house wiring) and the distribution panel (breaker panel) are generally sized by the electrician who will do the installation. If you have an electric stove, an electric refrigerator, a freezer (to store lots of food), and a submersible pump in a drilled well, lights, etc, these all have to taken into account, and the distribution panel in the house will have to be capable of handling these loads safely. Things like electric range/oven, well pump, clothes dryer are generally wired for 220V nominal because they are big loads and it's best to have have them fed from both legs of the breaker panel so the load is distributed across both legs instead of trying to draw a lot of power from one leg.

In Maine (at least if you are served by CMP/FPL) if you want to build far away from existing power lines the power company will mount a step-down transformer on the nearest utility pole and they will run a 220V line to the meter mounted on your house (or on a temporary structure built for that purpose) and YOU have to pay for every pole that they have to install between the transformer and the meter. If you choose underground service, YOU pay for all the trenching and filling and the direct burial entrance cable (which is more expensive than the overhead cable). The electric utility may not make you pay up-front for the poles, but if they don't, they will make you sign a service contract and every month, some of your utility bill charges will come from payments on those poles. If you discontinue electrical service, they will expect you to pay for the poles in a lump sum.

Now, about the logic and legalities of building a one-room cabin. Many municipalities will not allow you to reside permanently in any structure that does not have running water, heat, and sanitary facilities. Even if you can meet those requirements, you will probably have to pay for the entire project out of your own pocket. In general, banks will not loan money for the construction of a residence that does not meet FHA guidelines, or even more stringent guidelines. Banks often do not hold the loans that they make - they sell them to holding companies who may or may not bundle and re-sell them to investors. At every step along the way, the lending institutions, investors, etc want assurances that the mortgage they are holding is sound and is backed by salable property as collateral. You will find very few investors who will regard a one-room cabin in the woods a "salable" residential property. For this reason, if you want to build and live in such a property, you will have to pay for it out of pocket. Remember, too, that each municipality/township/county can have its own regulations regarding what constitutes a permanent residence, and you will have to pay to comply with those regulations. You can't just buy some land, throw up a building willy-nilly, and move in. If you do that, the next time you open your door, you will be looking at a handful of code-enforcement officers. They will ask to see your permits, and inspect the parts of the building that they are responsible for - structure, electricity, plumbing, sanitation, etc. If you did any of the work yourself, they will ask for written proof that a licensed professional inspected your work and signed off on it. If you don't have the paperwork in line or have violated codes, you are subject to fines and penalties until the facilities comply with the codes, and they may be cumulative ($X/day until the work is brought up to code and re-inspected).
 
Last edited:
  • #15
stickythighs said:
Arggh! What is capacity?

Capacity is how much service you will require. How many peak KWs. Or put another way how many amps of electricity your peak demand will be.

Edit: Didn't see Turbo's post. I defer to his treatment of the subject.
 
  • #16
stickythighs said:
Would I have to have a building permit in order to build a small one room cabin on some land?
If it's meant to be a permanent structure, most likely, yes. And there will be building codes to comply with. If you plan to live in it (as opposed to using it as an out-building, like a storage shed), then there will be additional codes to meet to get a certificate of occupancy.

stickythighs said:
Let me put it to you this way. We'll assume I have built a cabin that is five hundred yards from the nearest street with a power line. The junction would be at that street five hundred yards away. There are no trees in the way. Would the utility company pay for the 500 yards of power line going from the junction box to my cabin?

Is the 500 yards on your property, or over public lands? If it's all on your property, you'll probably be the one paying for it. If it's over public lands, it might depend on the utility company and how likely it is worth their while to run the line there (i.e., if you're the first of many homes about to be built there, and they'll be servicing all of them, they might do it without charging, but if they need to do it all special for you and there are no other homes planned out there in the near future, or they're all being put up by the same construction company, they might make you pay for it). And, of course, if it's over someone else's property, you may have to pay the property owner for the easement rights to run a utility line through their land (if they give you permission to do it at all...they have the right to refuse entirely).
 
  • #17
Another facet, for example, is the land. Before 1985, I believe, in the state where I live, someone could buy one acre and build on it--now its five acres (in an unincorporated area--that means, a non-city setting).
 
  • #18
Generally, utility companies are required to serve your needs unless they are unusual. What is the electric company in your area?

Also, the thing to do would be to find a service/metering request form and fill it out (we can help). Then a utility rep will contact you and help figure out what you need and what it would take to make it happen.
 
  • #19
When I had the power run to my cabin, first I had to get easement clearing ok'd by the guy who had the last pole on the line. This gave the power company the ok to extend the line across the front of his property. I was lucky, and he was really nice, its not unheard of for someone to ask for money for this easement right of way.
Then they put 2 poles up to get it to the front of my property{$1,200.00} and ran the wire to the pole. But then I had to have the wire run to my meter, another 250 ft from the road, which cost me $500.00{2 dollars per foot}.
So $1700.00 was my total bill for this.
 
  • #20
turbo-1 said:
Remember, too, that each municipality/township/county can have its own regulations regarding what constitutes a permanent residence, and you will have to pay to comply with those regulations. You can't just buy some land, throw up a building willy-nilly, and move in. If you do that, the next time you open your door, you will be looking at a handful of code-enforcement officers. They will ask to see your permits, and inspect the parts of the building that they are responsible for - structure, electricity, plumbing, sanitation, etc. If you did any of the work yourself, they will ask for written proof that a licensed professional inspected your work and signed off on it. If you don't have the paperwork in line or have violated codes, you are subject to fines and penalties until the facilities comply with the codes, and they may be cumulative ($X/day until the work is brought up to code and re-inspected).

Ted Kaczysnki "just bought some land, threw up a building willy-nilly, and moved in." Kaczysnki did not have electricity. Kaczysnki bought the land and built the cabin in Lincoln, Montana in the early 1970s. Kaczynski lived in the cabin until his arrest for being the unabomber in 1996.

How did Ted Kaczysnki get away with living in a cabin without electricity? Did he get away with it because the cabin was built in the 1970s, and if one doesn't have to upgrade as long as the cabin is in compliance when it was built?

Or do you think that it was a fluke that Lincoln, Montana allowed it and most very small towns wouldn't?
 
  • #21
hypatia said:
When I had the power run to my cabin, first I had to get easement clearing ok'd by the guy who had the last pole on the line. This gave the power company the ok to extend the line across the front of his property. I was lucky, and he was really nice, its not unheard of for someone to ask for money for this easement right of way.
Then they put 2 poles up to get it to the front of my property{$1,200.00} and ran the wire to the pole. But then I had to have the wire run to my meter, another 250 ft from the road, which cost me $500.00{2 dollars per foot}.
So $1700.00 was my total bill for this.

I would have thought that a power line poles would cost more than $600 per pole. When did you buy these two poles?
 
  • #22
Evo said:
If you are planning to purchase an unimproved lot, there are so many things that you have to check before you can get a building permit. Before you buy, contact the electric company, and any other utility first to get their opinion.

Does it cost money to get a building permit?
 
  • #23
stickythighs said:
Does it cost money to get a building permit?

yes--its often proportional to the cost of the project

it does two things--one, it gets someone in there to see if you're doing it right, and secondly, it gives the local gov't the idea of how much to tax you
 
  • #24
Also, depending on where you are buying , you may have to have a septic tank installed, that will cost a fortune.
 
  • #26
stickythighs said:
Does it cost money to get a building permit?

For Greene County where you were asking about elsewhere, you can check here:
http://www.greenecountymo.org/building_regulations/index.php
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #28
I had to get a building permit for my dog house, it was 8' by 12' and had a skylight and cross ventilated windows.
 
  • #29
Evo said:
I had to get a building permit for my dog house, it was 8' by 12' and had a skylight and cross ventilated windows.
Ah for 4 square feet...
You would have slipped under the radar here, Evo. In this town, you need a permit for any outbuilding 100 foot2 or larger. Some of my neighbors have multiple small wood-sheds, tool-sheds, etc for that reason. Keep them small and duck the codes.
 
  • #30
Evo said:
I had to get a building permit for my dog house, it was 8' by 12' and had a skylight and cross ventilated windows.

Is a skylight just a glass window on the ceiling designed to light the dog house in the daytime from the sunlight?
 
  • #31
I was thinking with all the red tape of building permits, property taxes, electrical lines, etc, a cheaper way to do this would be to just build a cabin out in a rural area and not inform the tax assessor and other authorities that one is building a cabin. It would be cheaper to just let the authorities think that the land is merely undeveloped land and use a generator for the electricity.
 
  • #32
stickythighs said:
Is a skylight just a glass window on the ceiling designed to light the dog house in the daytime from the sunlight?

Yes.
Not sure why a doghouse would have one, dog's normally like to go somewhere cool and dark out of the sun - unless of course Evo got some cool sunglasses for the dog.
 
  • #33
Unless you buy 10,000 acres and build your cabin in the middle of it, they will find you. The one thing about rural communities, and the small towns near by, is that the people know pretty much know everything that's going on in what they consider their homeland.
A stranger buys land...secretly builds a cabin, comes to town to buy gas{generator} and supplies, why the whole town would be talking about you in a matter of days.
Oh I had electric put in the beginning of June of this year.
 
  • #34
mgb_phys said:
Yes.
Not sure why a doghouse would have one, dog's normally like to go somewhere cool and dark out of the sun - unless of course Evo got some cool sunglasses for the dog.
No, it was a domed dark tinted window. Not a sheet of glass in the roof. This was a freaking PALACE. Nice screens on the windows, I had it insulated, a raised bed (which it ate) a dog door.

So, the first baseball size hail storm hits, does the dog go into her Palace? No? Does the dog go under the deck? No. Does the dog stand on the deck getting pummeled unconscious and I have to go out and drag the idiot inside and get my glasses broken by a direct hit into my face by a piece of ice as big as my fist? YES.
 
  • #35
Evo,

It was a domed dark tinted shade of glass in the roof.
 
  • #36
hypatia said:
Unless you buy 10,000 acres and build your cabin in the middle of it, they will find you. The one thing about rural communities, and the small towns near by, is that the people know pretty much know everything that's going on in what they consider their homeland.
A stranger buys land...secretly builds a cabin, comes to town to buy gas{generator} and supplies, why the whole town would be talking about you in a matter of days.



Oh I had electric put in the beginning of June of this year.

Hypatia,

Please check out my thread styled "How did Ted Kaczynski get away with it?", and tell me why you think Kaczynski got away with living in a cabin with no electricity or running water.
 
  • #37
stickythighs said:
Evo,

It was a domed dark tinted shade of glass in the roof.
That is a skylight. As opposed to Bubba sawing a hole in the roof and inserting a pane of glass. :-p
 
  • #38
stickythighs said:
Hypatia,

Please check out my thread styled "How did Ted Kaczynski get away with it?", and tell me why you think Kaczynski got away with living in a cabin with no electricity or running water.

during 'that time' , there may have been a lot of hippies, etc. escaping out into the 'country' and, the officials probably didn't do much against him or the others as there were so many
 
  • #39
stickythighs said:
I was thinking with all the red tape of building permits, property taxes, electrical lines, etc, a cheaper way to do this would be to just build a cabin out in a rural area and not inform the tax assessor and other authorities that one is building a cabin. It would be cheaper to just let the authorities think that the land is merely undeveloped land and use a generator for the electricity.
You're not going to get away with that, at least not for very long. First off, the tax assessor is aware of any property sales or transfers in his or her jurisdiction, and in rural settings, the officers of the town (in our case we elect selectmen) and employees of the town are going to be living and working near you. They WILL know if you build a place, even if you try to stay off the grid, and when the code-enforcement officers show up to see what you've been doing, the trouble starts. If you don't do things the right way, you may be forced to tear stuff down, apply for permits, rebuild to code, etc, and that can get really expensive really fast. Not only that, town officials are not going to jump through hoops for you to help you get into compliance after you tried to deceive them. They're people, too, and since they get very little pay for working in town government, they are going to take a very dim view of the extra work you make for them by pulling crap like that.

In the last town I lived in, building permit checks and code visits were triggered by requests for electricity hook-ups and properties "off the grid" were assumed to be undeveloped. That little glitch was fixed when it turned out that a woman with a hardware business and her husband built a self-sufficient "green" house and didn't pay taxes for a number of years. They had to pay full assessed-value taxes for three years back, but they got away with the fraud for for over 5 years, and got a couple of years tax-free (on improvements). BTW, the woman's mother was the first selectman and was very well aware of the fraud. That didn't make residents too happy.
 
  • #40
Evo said:
I had to get a building permit for my dog house, it was 8' by 12' and had a skylight and cross ventilated windows.

Evo said:
No, it was a domed dark tinted window. Not a sheet of glass in the roof. This was a freaking PALACE. Nice screens on the windows, I had it insulated, a raised bed (which it ate) a dog door.

So, the first baseball size hail storm hits, does the dog go into her Palace? No? Does the dog go under the deck? No. Does the dog stand on the deck getting pummeled unconscious and I have to go out and drag the idiot inside and get my glasses broken by a direct hit into my face by a piece of ice as big as my fist? YES.

Next time, just leave him out there. After he's killed by baseball size hail, you can advertise that you're accepting applications.

With an abode like that, I'll apply to be your dog.
 
  • #41
You might just be better off buying a mobile home and parking it on the land if there are no zoning laws against it. It saves a whole lot of building. Then all you really need is the septic and electric hook up (or run off a generator, but given current gas prices, that's probably not much of a bargain) and every so often, have someone come out to refill the propane.
 
  • #42
One consideration for Missouri is tornadoes.

http://extension.missouri.edu/tornado.htm

A trailer home or a cabin wouldn't be my first choice of places to wait one out.
 
  • #43
LowlyPion said:
One consideration for Missouri is tornadoes.

http://extension.missouri.edu/tornado.htm

A trailer home or a cabin wouldn't be my first choice of places to wait one out.
A log cabin with a nice concrete cellar wouldn't be bad. I'd rather ride out a twister in my log house than in a stick-built house.
 
  • #44
turbo-1 said:
A log cabin with a nice concrete cellar wouldn't be bad. I'd rather ride out a twister in my log house than in a stick-built house.

Well now, concrete cellar. Now you're talking. Below ground level concrete walls and maybe a heavy metal door and roof. I saw a show that was accelerating 2x4's to 200 mph and running them through cinder block walls. All I can say is I wouldn't want to be dodging those. Below ground level seems about the only safe recourse.
 
  • #45
LowlyPion said:
Well now, concrete cellar. Now you're talking. Below ground level concrete walls and maybe a heavy metal door and roof. I saw a show that was accelerating 2x4's to 200 mph and running them through cinder block walls. All I can say is I wouldn't want to be dodging those. Below ground level seems about the only safe recourse.
I live in a VERY sturdy log house with a concrete cellar. I don't use the oil furnace down there and the cellar is unheated, so that it serves as a very nice steady-temperature root cellar. Carrots, squash, turnips, etc keep very well there. The place is not very big, so the cellar probably didn't cost that much to form and pour, and combined with the log construction of the living space, the cellar would be a pretty darned good place to ride out a tornado. Not much chance of a collapse of the main building into the foundation. This is a VERY rugged house.
greenacres.jpg

BTW, the mercury-vapor light on the pole was purchased by the original builder, and it is not owned by the town or the power company. It has a light-sensor to turn it on, with a disconnect switch in my garage. It has been on probably a total of 30 minutes in over 2 years. I like it dark.
 
  • #46
Turbo-1,

How did the powers-that-be find out that the woman with the hardware business was living in this "green" house?
 
  • #47
When the power lines were originally run out from the nearest street with power lines to your house, do you think that the original owner had to pay for it? Or did the utility company pay for it?
 
  • #48
Moonbear said:
You might just be better off buying a mobile home and parking it on the land if there are no zoning laws against it. It saves a whole lot of building. Then all you really need is the septic and electric hook up (or run off a generator, but given current gas prices, that's probably not much of a bargain) and every so often, have someone come out to refill the propane.

Good point. It might be easier to buy a mobile home.

Why would there be zoning laws against it?

Another thing I would need would be a well (in addition to septic tank and electric hook up).
 
  • #49
turbo-1 said:
BTW, the mercury-vapor light on the pole was purchased by the original builder...

I like physics forums. It's not just a light. It's a mercury-vapor light.
 
  • #50
Are there any states that have no property taxes?

Are there any states in the USA that don't have property taxes? If so, what states?

Or, are there any counties within any states that don't have property taxes? If so, what counties?
 

Similar threads

AC Mains Power conditioner question
Replies
18
Views
2K
Is Doing More Always Better for Society?
Replies
4
Views
2K
Health Risks Living Near Power Lines
Replies
2
Views
2K
Warranty void until balance is paid in full.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Long distance electrical transmission
Replies
1
Views
2K
How do people in very isolated rural areas get electricity?
Replies
20
Views
34K
Why do utility companies decrease the voltage sent houses?
Replies
23
Views
11K
How Can I Make My New Home More Eco-Friendly?
Replies
30
Views
5K
Gas to power stoves and heat homes in rural areas
Replies
3
Views
7K
Small-scale hydropower generators installed in irrigation canals
Replies
5
Views
4K

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top