Nonvanishing Torsion: When Does It Occur?

  • A
  • Thread starter EnigmaticField
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Torsion
But there are still plenty of connections on the tangent bundle of the sphere with non-zero torsion (I think; see the next post), so the prescription isn't unique.
  • #1
EnigmaticField
31
2
Since the first day I learned the torsion I keep having the question how a nonvanishing torsion is likely to occur because based on the definition formula of the torsion, it looks like the torsion always vanishes. I have come back to think about this question a couple of times after my first encounter with it, but always feel the same and am puzzled. I know I shall be wrong because if the torsion always vanishes, why do people bother to define it? But I just can't find out where I am wrong. I put my argument as follows, hoping someone can point out where I am wrong.

Given a manifold V with connection [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}[/itex], if [itex]\bf{X}[/itex] and [itex]\bf{Y}[/itex] are vector fields on the tangent bundle of V, the torsion at a point [itex]\rm{p}\in \rm{V}[/itex] is defined as [itex]T=\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}-[\bf{X},\bf{Y}][/itex]. In this formula, on the one hand, [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] is the projection of [itex]\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] into the tangent space of V at p, [itex]\rm{V_p}[/itex], and [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex] is the projection of [itex]\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex] into [itex]\rm{V_p}[/itex]; on the other hand, [itex][\bf{X},\bf{Y}]=\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex] must be tangent to V so should be the tangent component of [itex]\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] minus the tangent component of [itex]\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex]. Thus doesn't [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}=[\bf{X},\bf{Y}][/itex] always hold? Then doesn't the torsion [itex]T[/itex] always vanish?

When V is a hypersurface of another manifold M with connection [itex]\nabla^\rm{M}[/itex] (in this case [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}[/itex] is treated as an induced connection), the above argument can also be understood by the Gauss equations: [itex]\textbf{X}\bf{Y}=\nabla^\rm{M}_\textbf{X}\textbf{Y}=\nabla^\rm{V}_\textbf{X}\textbf{Y}+\rm{B}(\textbf{X},\textbf{Y})\textbf{N}...(1)[/itex]
[itex]\textbf{Y}\textbf{X}=\nabla^\rm{M}_\textbf{Y}\textbf{X}=\nabla^\rm{V}_\textbf{Y}\textbf{X}+\rm{B}(\textbf{Y},\textbf{X})\textbf{N}...(2)[/itex], in which [itex]\rm{B}[/itex] is the second fundamental form with the property [itex]\rm{B}(\bf{X},\bf{Y})=\rm{B}(\bf{Y},\bf{X})[/itex] and [itex]\textbf{N}[/itex] is the unit normal vector field on V. Then from (1) and (2) we can get [itex]\bf{XY}-\bf{YX}=\nabla^\rm{M}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\nabla^\rm{M}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}=\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex], which says that the torsion always vanishes.

So when on Earth can a nonvanishing torsion ever occur?

Or does my argument in the second paragraph only apply to the case when V is embedded in a higher dimensional manifold because only in that case does saying projecting [itex]\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] into [itex]\rm{V_p}[/itex] to get [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] make sense? If that's the case does that mean a nonvanishing torsion can only occur when V is not embedded in another mainfold, that is, a nonvanihing torsion can only occur to a non-induced connection?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
The point with the embedding is that you are inheriting several properties from the space you embed in. You do not need to do that. The "intuitive" way of defining connections in terms of projections based on embedding spaces does not cover all possible connections.

My favorite example of a space with non-zero torsion is the sphere with the poles removed and the compass directions being parallel fields (this uniquely defines the connection).
 
  • #3
EnigmaticField said:
Given a manifold V with connection [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}[/itex], if [itex]\bf{X}[/itex] and [itex]\bf{Y}[/itex] are vector fields on the tangent bundle of V, the torsion at a point [itex]\rm{p}\in \rm{V}[/itex] is defined as [itex]T=\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}-\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}-[\bf{X},\bf{Y}][/itex]. In this formula, on the one hand, [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] is the projection of [itex]\bf{X}\bf{Y}[/itex] into the tangent space of V at p, [itex]\rm{V_p}[/itex], and [itex]\nabla^\rm{V}_\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex] is the projection of [itex]\bf{Y}\bf{X}[/itex] into [itex]\rm{V_p}[/itex];

When you define a connection using these projection conditions, you have already picked out the Levi-Civita connection, so of course it will be torsion-free.

But you don't need to define a connection this way. A connection is just a prescription for relating nearby tangent spaces to each other; in principle it can be completely arbitrary, so long as it is smooth. So, e.g., you can choose a connection on ##\mathbb{R}^3## with unit vectors ##e_1, e_2, e_3## given by

$$\nabla_{e_i} e_j = \varepsilon_{ijk} \, e_k$$
This connection has torsion. One way of thinking of torsion is that it measures how frames twist when parallel-propagated along geodesics.
 
  • #4
Orodruin said:
My favorite example of a space with non-zero torsion is the sphere with the poles removed and the compass directions being parallel fields (this uniquely defines the connection).

This is only a unique prescription if you assume the connection is metric-compatible, of course. :D

Which I'm only pointing out to emphasize that the concept of a connection can really be quite arbitrary. It really can be anything; these rules such as metric-compatibility and vanishing-torsion are just things we impose because they pick out a particular connection that is interesting to us. But mathematicians do study objects that are invariant under this completely arbitrary choice of connection (differential topology, for example).
 
  • #5
Ben Niehoff said:
This is only a unique prescription if you assume the connection is metric-compatible, of course. :D
Right, I assumed normalised compass directions so the assumption of metric compatibility is implicit.
 

1. What is nonvanishing torsion?

Nonvanishing torsion is a property of a physical system where the torsion, or twisting force, does not equal zero. This means that there is a non-zero rotational force acting on the system, which can affect its behavior and movement.

2. When does nonvanishing torsion occur?

Nonvanishing torsion can occur in various physical systems, such as in crystals, elastic materials, and fluid dynamics. It can also occur in the context of Einstein-Cartan theory of gravity, where spacetime is described as having both curvature and torsion.

3. How does nonvanishing torsion affect a physical system?

The presence of nonvanishing torsion can affect the behavior and dynamics of a physical system. For example, in crystals, it can lead to the formation of dislocations and changes in the material's mechanical properties. In Einstein-Cartan theory, it can affect the equations of motion and potentially lead to new phenomena, such as spin-gravity interactions.

4. Is nonvanishing torsion a common occurrence?

Nonvanishing torsion is not a common occurrence in everyday life. However, it is an important concept in certain areas of physics, such as crystallography and general relativity. It is also an active topic of research in theoretical physics, where scientists are trying to understand its implications and potential applications.

5. Can nonvanishing torsion be measured or observed?

Yes, nonvanishing torsion can be measured and observed in experiments. For example, in crystallography, it can be detected through the presence of dislocations and other defects in the crystal structure. In general relativity, it can be indirectly observed through its effects on the behavior of particles and light in the presence of strong gravitational fields.

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
31
Views
6K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
7
Views
5K
Replies
6
Views
953
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
20
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
854
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
1
Views
670
  • Math Proof Training and Practice
2
Replies
46
Views
4K
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
2
Views
843
Back
Top