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When has communism existed, and what was wrong with it?

  1. Apr 23, 2003 #1
    Disclaimer: I am not a communist, and I like the ability of people to make their livings their own ways. That being said...

    When has communism existed, and what was wrong with it?
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2013
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 23, 2003 #2
    I believe it was Karl Marx who said that Communism was an offshoot from the Knights Templar. I have also heard it said that the Templars were the first communists from other sources as well. Their seals show two Knights riding together on a single horse and this may have been a symbol for their self-imposed poverty and communal sharing.

    First, I would say to hell with the disclaimer. It doesn’t matter to me if you are communist or not. It is the right for people to get together and discuss ideas. In the so-called land of the free their were people who had their lives ruined forever for simply being in a room where such things were discussed. What kind of conformist mind control crap is that anyway?

    What is wrong with communism, and would it really be so bad if all humanity worked together, sharing and enthused to be a part of such a society? Well, so long as the participants are all willing and not being forced to conform, having their wealth confiscated along the way, then whatever a group of individuals feel might suit their purposes is fine by me. It’s a pity that no matter the form of government, conformity and confiscation takes place. Because of human nature, scarcity of goods and the inability to set relative values on same, there are economic reasons why this system isn’t likely to work…but that is another story.
  4. Apr 23, 2003 #3
    It has never existed, nor will it ever.
  5. Apr 23, 2003 #4


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    Staff: Mentor

    Reason: communism is incompatible with human nature (as Boulder alluded to).
  6. Apr 24, 2003 #5
    i believe epicure started the first actual commune, although this is not necessarily the same thing as communism. he and some intelectual friends moved away from rome so as to be free of the market economy, it was a small commune so not so applicable to society, not very much at all really.

    i hate it when people say 'but communism doesn't work', because i don't know what kind of screwed society considers millions dying every day a 'working' economic system, that's just sick. then again i would not describe myself as a communist necessarily simply becasue i don't know enough, studying economics is opening my eyes but at the same time killing the idea i had of economics with humane ideals, but what can you do?

    yes, as pretty much everyone says, 'communism is incompatible with human nature' ie wanting things, status, power. which is just great really, but once upon a time killing was considered a quite acceptable part of human nature, as was rape, torture need i go on? human nature isn't a god we have to worship with our economic decisions.

    i just bought a red star nose stud!
  7. Apr 24, 2003 #6
    I guess, ideally, we would embrace large parts of communism, or at least the sharing spirit behind it. Like putre capitalism, pure communism doesn't work. It ignores the fact that people are greedy...but maybe we should as a society start to weed out the greed?
  8. Apr 25, 2003 #7
    Re: Communism

    It never existed. Communism was never given a chance. What existed in the Soviet Union, and exists in China and Cuba is nowhere close to Communism.
  9. Apr 25, 2003 #8


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    pure communism, and pure capitalism for that matter, has never existed on a large scale. pure communism, the fat cats lose their power, so do the politicians. i think that was the main reason for the mccarthyism and the red scare back during the cold war. the politicians saw it as a threat to their power, so they started the red hunt, making it uncool/unprofitable to not be on their side. then the media goes with them like they're doing now with bush. then the people all get sucked into it, even though in some ways they might be better off with communism.

    the attempts at communism so far have just been socialist dictatorships- if you remember, communism has no leader. usually there's a "transitional" leader, who gets power-hungry and won't let go. read animal farm.

    pure capitalism, don't think society can function with this.

    human nature will never fully allow for effective leadership of any form. someone will always try to take control in communism. democracy, i believe many people aren't capable of making an informed decision. furthermore, i don't think congresspeople can make a decision based fully on their constituents. i mean, look at washington. we have a president who is invading countries, possibly so he can get some oil for his big campaign contributors.
  10. Apr 25, 2003 #9
    i don't think communism involves there not being a leader, and animal farm is not just about communism as most people would liked to think but a comment on the cyclic nature of any sort of revolution, marxism involves a balance of revolution and reform
  11. Apr 25, 2003 #10
    I think there can be a leader in communism, but that leader has to be a part of the middle class (the only class) and has the same quality of life as everybody else. Whereas in a socialist dictatorship the leader makes all the money in the world while the people get nothing.
  12. Apr 25, 2003 #11


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    I thought Marx advocated the idea there is no centralised government, but rather the people rule themselves in distrubuted communes and collectives...
  13. Apr 25, 2003 #12
    There is a stage of transition, the "dictatorship of the proletariat", through which you pass before getting to a stateless society. So you go from very strong state to no state. That's the theory of it.
  14. Apr 25, 2003 #13
    And here is what I have always seen as the rub, for the dictatorship doesn't seem to ever go away.
  15. Apr 25, 2003 #14
    communisam is about to exist.i mean the true communisam.
    communisam or capitalisam, the problem is same:
    we need a star trek replicator to solve this existencial problem first and after that the type of society won't matter.

    when i'm talking about my idea for matter generator (generating and anyhilating matter) no one cares.
  16. Apr 25, 2003 #15
    I agree with this. Who was it that said something like;

    In a society that can provide enough worldly goods for everyone, there shouldn't be much desire to oppose socialism.
  17. Apr 25, 2003 #16


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    Hmm... I agree. The limitation of resources is the key factor in the evolution of what we call greed. In an ideal environment, we would not have neccessary competition, and hence capitalism would be unviable. However, society would have no impetus to change, and mankind will stagnate.
    On the other hand, I think we can at present support everyone in reasonable comfort, even with our limited resources...

    Build and we will care.
  18. Apr 25, 2003 #17
    In the final form of Communism, there are no leaders.

    I have always been taught that Napoleon was specifically supposed to be the Russian revolutionary leader--Stalin, I belive. I was taught that it is supposed to be a direct allegory to that revolution.
  19. Apr 25, 2003 #18


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    a "world commune" would solve the matter of regional resources, as resources could be distributed to where they're needed. but a large scale operation like this would require some leadership, and leadership is where communism loses it.
  20. Apr 25, 2003 #19
    well exactly, this is why i'm sure communism doesn't do away with some form of leadership, a completely centralised economy needs, well, a center! i'm so confused *goes off to read the principles of communism*
  21. Apr 25, 2003 #20
    I believe that communism involves a period of dictatorship, before turning the reins over to the communes...but how can you trust teh dictator to give up the power once he has it?
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