# Where is the Sound Coming From?

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1. Oct 27, 2014

### WWGD

Hi All , my landlord has been doing extremely loud drilling in the
apartment right above mine. I have been recording it, but I wonder
if there is a way to show that the sound was recorded in my apartment
and not elsewhere (say in the street, next to a construction site)?

2. Oct 27, 2014

### Simon Bridge

No there isn't.
This is why people use video cameras.

3. Oct 28, 2014

### Danger

Actually, there is. Several, in fact. All but one are based upon future recordings, with witnesses or other vindicating resources. The one that isn't might not work (so I'm not really contradicting Simon), but could be worth a try. A very careful scrutiny of the tape by a forensic (audiologist? electronics guru? seismologist?) just might provide enough background noise such as traffic, police sirens, factory sound, etc. that analysis of the relative volumes could (just could, not likely) allow for triangulation of the site.

4. Oct 28, 2014

### Simon Bridge

Every method that could be used to make an authenticable sound recording is much better employed on a video recording.
You could lower the standard from "proof" to "reasonable evidence" though - depends on what the recording needs to be used for.

5. Oct 28, 2014

### Danger

Agreed, absolutely... for future employment. What I was trying to address is whether or not the existing audio tape can be of probative value.

6. Oct 29, 2014

### sophiecentaur

You need to get the Environmental Officer in your flat when the noise is there. He / she would be a bomb proof witness.

7. Oct 29, 2014

### Danger

I've never heard of one of those. Might I assume that it's the equivalent of our Bylaw Enforcement Officer? S/He deals with stuff like unruly lawns and barking dogs and such like.

8. Oct 29, 2014

### sophiecentaur

They are pretty powerful, given the right conditions. My Son, when he lived in London, had a lot of noise from a bar, next door. He got 'The Environmental' involved and they made them stop using that room. Soon after, the pub closed and was replaced with a convenience store. Double whammy! They deal with dogs and machinery etc.
But it's the Officer's ears and his meter that count as evidence.

9. Oct 29, 2014

### Danger

Okay, it is pretty much the same thing then.
You took me by surprise when you spoke of your son, and then I checked your profile page. I always thought that you were in your 30's.

10. Oct 29, 2014

### sophiecentaur

I even passed 40 (HEX base) some while ago.
So what you saying'? Saying I is childish?

11. Oct 29, 2014

### Danger

You is. Your funny words makes it twue.

Either that, or you're English... :p

12. Oct 29, 2014

### sophiecentaur

Saucy young devil.

13. Oct 29, 2014

### Danger

:D

14. Oct 30, 2014

### WWGD

Well, I though of taking a selfie in my place , with my laptop,
and then somehow proving the sound file came from my laptop.
I don't know if I can time/date the sound file, though (microsoft's sound recorder)
I just need to be able to time, date the selfie. Ah, the glamorous
life of not having enough  to just hire a lawyer! And I may still run into
a judge that is afraid of the web, let alone being able to authentify sound files.
Maybe I can hire a witness.

15. Oct 30, 2014

### sophiecentaur

Is it the Landlord himself who is creating the din? If is an employee, you could invite the landlord into your home to listen to it. Or you could offer to hold the drill whilst he pops into your flat to listen.
My opinion is that, if he is unreceptive to polite comments, he is very unlikely to take any notice of any 'technical' evidence you might present him with. Life is tough at times and there may be other practical solutions - do you have other tenants, around, who would also complain?
Do you have a large ex-wrestler friend who could visit him and try asking him nicely?

16. Oct 30, 2014

### WWGD

Thanks, but I was thinking of initiating a lawsuit myself with
this evidence, in small claims. By law, I am entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of
my property. Landlord rep. replied by just stating that the city required that the work be done.

17. Oct 30, 2014

### sophiecentaur

So it will be over eventually?
Something to look forward to.

18. Oct 30, 2014

### Danger

I don't know about domestic, rather than outdoor, situations such as yours, but in my area there are noise-abatement laws that specify during which timeframes loud activities can legally be undertaken. (No lawn-mowing after 10:00 pm or suchlike.) If the city is demanding the work as you say, they are ultimately responsible for your discomfort and should restrict the work to regular business hours.
Of course, that's an oversimplification, but you should have some recourse through them.

19. Oct 30, 2014

### Staff: Mentor

I'm not getting any of this. Why the need to document something that the landlord openly acknowledges? Landlords renovate apartments. Yah, it sucks that it will be loud for a little while, but it isn't something you can or should sue over. When did they say they would be finished? Is it happening very early in the morning/late at night?

Or am I missing something here?

20. Oct 30, 2014

### Danger

I watch enough TV to know what's going on here. The landlord is obviously stashing his murder victims inside the walls.

21. Oct 30, 2014

### WWGD

d
The drilling starts at around 8:30 a.m . The landlord ( actually the people in the building, not the landlord itself,) acknowledge(s) it , but do(es) not agree to neither start later on in the day, nor to find me a new apartment in the same building where there isn't as much noise. There is no acknowledgement by anyone from the building that my rights (by law) to be able to peacefully enjoy my rental property are being violated. If I went to court, the landlord/reps. may not be willing to acknowledge to their causing the noise, since I do not have any acknowledgement in writing. If I were to produce some evidence in the form of a sound file, the landlord's reps. may claim that the sound does not come from the building, and that I may have recorded it somewhere else.

Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
22. Oct 30, 2014

### Simon Bridge

You also want to check the bylaws - the officer will be helpful there.
Anyway - since you are thinking of suing - then your best course of action is, also, to consult a lawyer.
The lawyer will be able to properly advise you on what sort of evidence will be useful and what sort of chances you have in court ... though it probably won't get that far.
You should not be seeking advise for this matter online.

23. Oct 30, 2014

### Staff: Mentor

8:30 isn't that early. I'm not surprised they refuse to move you or change the time of their work.
Probably because they aren't!
As Simon Says, you need to back-up here and read-up on your lease agreement and the laws in your area to see if you even have a reasonable/actionable legal complaint. I highly doubt that you do.

Your landlord has a right to renovate his apartments during working hours. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to forbid him from renovating his own property and I can't imagine you would have a case here.

24. Oct 30, 2014

### WWGD

I am not fully decided on suing; I am just exploring and listening to others' perspective. It would have been nice if I had been notified of this when I signed my lease. How does the landlord know I don't e.g., have a night job and I come back home at , say, 6 a.m ? A lot of people , including myself, do have schedules other than 9-5 . EDIT : It is no longer nowadays, and in NYC, to assume most people have a 9-5 schedule. It is not required for one to have a 9-5 schedule in the lease, nor even that one should be working. I don't want to take away the landlord's option to renew the property; I just want to know in advance, meaning when I sign the lease, if/when the renewals will happen , and what they entail ( hammering, drilling, etc. )

Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
25. Oct 30, 2014

### Simon Bridge

The best way to decide your course of action is to check your lease agreement and the local bylaws ...you can do that for free.
You can probably consult the compliance officer without charge or for a modest fee ... depending on where you live.
Lawyers you leave till last since they tend to be expensive - but many countries have some sort of citizens legal service you could consult.
People here are only expressing an opinion - if you do not like the opinion ten by all means check the facts... we could have it wrong.

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