Calculators Which calculator? Hp 50G vs Ti89 Titanium

[Hans Bauer]

Question to jaschhandler

Hi jaschandler,

thanks for your hint for the new flash update 2.09 for HP49g and HP50g. But at
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=99782

I found

After updating the ROM to v2.09 in my HP-49G+ , I found that the Equation Library didn't work as usual!

Are you really sure to recommend this update? Does it solve my above described issues? I nowhere found a description of the content of this update. Thanks in advance for your answer.

Hans Bauer

 

[BernardG]

Hello again,


[*]The default for the keyboard is a KEYTIME of 1/6 second. That means that if you press a single key twice within 1/6 second, only one keystroke will be recognized. If you e.g. type 2334 very fast you will get 234. For fast typers this preset is unusable. I asked my german hp consumer center for a solution to change this behaviour permanently. They contacted hp-usa to incite a solution 1 month ago, I'm still waiting for a responce.

I had that keytime problem and it is fixable. Keytime defaults to some number around 1300. You need to decrease it. 400 is good. In RPN mode enter 400, then enter ->KEYTIME. In algebraic mode enter ->KEYTIME(400).

You can set that keytime value as a startup default by creating a program as follows, between the quotes - "<< 400 ->KEYTIME >>". Store it in the home directory as a file named STARTUP. Reboot cause STARTUP to be executed (also good for setting you own default system flags).

HP support should have answered this quickly.

 

[FrogPad]

Ok I put RPN on my 89 and am trying to figure out what makes it so great.

Something I often do with my 89 is evaluate an expression for different values. Let me give an example:

Lets say you have (a+b)/b

Now I want to evaluate this at {a=1, b=2; a=2, b=1} for example:

with an 89 I can do,
(a+b)/b|a=1 and b=2

I can press enter and see a result,
now if I want to quickly change a number I go back to the result screen and press enter,
this comes up: (a+b)/b|a=1 and b=2

I then just change what I want by using the arrow keys,
(a+b)/b|a=2 and b=1

is there a quick way for evaluating expressions using RPN ?

 

[Integral]

As with your TI such a trick is not part of the basic functionality. You run a special program on the TI, likewise you would run a program on a RPN calculator. This is especially true for calculations more complex then your example.

Rather then looking for duplication of higher level functionality you would do well just to work with the basic RPN to see how well it works with first simple then more complex calculations.

 

[FrogPad]

As with your TI such a trick is not part of the basic functionality. You run a special program on the TI, likewise you would run a program on a RPN calculator. This is especially true for calculations more complex then your example.
So there is a special program for doing something similar on an HP calculator?

Rather then looking for duplication of higher level functionality you would do well just to work with the basic RPN to see how well it works with first simple then more complex calculations.

Yeah, the example I quoted was extremely simple... I would just do that in my head.

I'll keep playing around with RPN when I have the time. I think mixing between both input methods may be the best of both worlds for me.

 

[jaschandler]

Hi Hans Bauer

HP's 2.09 patch also includes replacements for the equation and constant library. HP mentions that the old libraries may cause memory problems and may not work at all. In HP's zip file were you downloaded the update you fill find the two replacement libraries that work with this update. You have to delete the old libraries from the previous flash and copy the two new ones HP has provided with the update.

After you do this both libraries will work.

 

[Hans Bauer]

Thanks

Hello jaschandler,

thank you a lot for your research and info. I will give this HP patch a try as soon as possible.

 

[jaschandler]

FrogPad,

I added RPN to my TI and was never satisfied with it. Some things worked and many things did not. I could not run the RPN program on my TI using the RPN library chip from TI. That was when I forced myself into many painful hours converting the RPN program to my HP.

I did the conversion and got the program to work. My TI-59 could run the program in a little under ten min. The HP 9825 ran it in fifteen. I knew my TI was faster then the HP we were working with at work.

I'm really predating myself...both of these calculators were of the LED type.

Any calculator purchased today is faster then those two were.

 

[Integral]

FrogPad,

I added RPN to my TI and was never satisfied with it. Some things worked and many things did not. I could not run the RPN program on my TI using the RPN library chip from TI. That was when I forced myself into many painful hours converting the RPN program to my HP.

I did the conversion and got the program to work. My TI-59 could run the program in a little under ten min. The HP 9825 ran it in fifteen. I knew my TI was faster then the HP we were working with at work.

I'm really predating myself...both of these calculators were of the LED type.

Any calculator purchased today is faster then those two were.

I am a bit of an HP calculator aficionado and was not familiar with the http://www.hp9825.com/index.html" a quick web search got me to the linked site.

A very interesting machine. But I must comment anything done on this dinosaur or the TI 59 (yet another dinosaur) has little to do with the calculators of today.

That 9825 site contains a very nice history of the development of modern electronics.

 

[jaschandler]

Integral,
I'm an old fart...I no longer use the old calculators I mentioned.
My last three calculators"
1. HP48GX --batteries leaked and it became problematic.
2. HP49g --LCD cracked while inflight (it was in my check in baggage).
3. HP50g --I'm very pleased with this calculator

 

[Llama77]

so what is the better model, the ti-89 or 50g

 

[Integral]

so what is the better model, the ti-89 or 50g

Now, it kind'a depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?

Pick the one that you like the looks of best, they'll both do the job.

 

[Dr Transport]

Nohaving monkeyed around with either of these calcuators, in general I'd say go with the HP not the TI. I have worked with both types and prefer the HP over the Ti because I found that they could take the constant use. Years ago my TI wore out in about 6 months, the mechanism under the keys just plain broke, whereas my hp took nearly th esame abuse and up until recently been going very well (it is 22 years old and the only key that has any issues is the square root/square).

 

[BernardG]

I also used the TI and HP. Due to RPN, I've found the HP easier and more natural to use.

But then some may find RPN strange. So its really a matter of preference. As long as you become proficient with the one you pick.

It would be nice if you could rent to try. Some sites, like Amazon allow a 30 day money back quarantee. You could order and return if you don't like it.

 

[qsquasher]

I used a TI-83 then a TI-89 through my engineering coursework at uni with considerable success. However, I lost my 89 in the final year and decided to replace it with a HP 49g+. This was less intuitive to use and had a steep learning curve - but I am glad I made the switch. You can carry out some very complex calculations with considerable elegance, once you become efficient in its use. I also found the screen much easier to read (i didnt realize how much I squinted at the 89 screen).

Another interesting consequence of using RPN, is that I became more 'immersed' in whatever calculator-based problem required solving. It forced me to compute in my head the approx. answer and its magnitude - which has now become more habitual and something I did back in high school before I got hold of an 89. And yes, its harder to go back to conventional calculators now.

I work as a dams engineer and have written some handy little programs on the 49g+. Other engineers seem to use hp48g variants or earlier. Haven't seen any TIs. In short though, I would recommend the TI for being more intuitive to the new user who wants to survive a maths/physics/eng course - a really great unit (but a bit boring too). However, if you (like me) take great pleasure in intellectualising your work and enjoy maths, you'll be ultimately more satisifed with a HP RPN unit, particularly the 50g. Also due to the aggressive marketing of TI calcs in schools, they are the most common whereas a decade ago, it was probably the reverse. I also happen to love an underdog, so that's icing on the cake for me. cheers

 

[gyrfalcon]

HP 50g vs Ti-89 Titanium

I've been looking at the HP 50g and Ti-89 Titanium quite closely and I can say this about them:

HP 50g:

• Very Fast CPU: 75Mhz ARM9 (Capable of 250mhz operation)
• Mediocre Screen resolution: 131×80
• IrDA (infrared) Port
• SD Expansion Slot
• More RAM: 512k
• Adequate Flash: 2MB
• Lacking Box/Whiskers, and other graph/plotting functions.
• Built-in Speaker
• More Open OS (HPGCC, etc)

TI-89 Titanium:

• Higher Screen Resolution: 160x100
• Slower CPU: 12mhz (MC68000)
• Less RAM: 188K
• Most Flash: 2.7MB
• Better Lab Support (http://www.vernier.com/mbl/labpro.html" )
• Proprietary OS
• Better Classroom Support, Geared to Education

Now it's pretty clear the HP-50 kicks the snot out of the Ti-89 Titanium from a pure specification standpoint.

Everything being said; I bought a Ti-89 Titanium today because it has advanced statistics capabilities built in and better support by educators.

 

[Llama77]

I have the 50G and it puts my friends Ti's to shame.

 

[aerostrato]

TI 89 Titanium Vs. HP 50G

I've been looking at the HP 50g and Ti-89 Titanium quite closely and I can say this about them:

HP 50g:

• Very Fast CPU: 75Mhz ARM9 (Capable of 250mhz operation)
• Mediocre Screen resolution: 131×80
• IrDA (infrared) Port
• SD Expansion Slot
• More RAM: 512k
• Adequate Flash: 2MB
• Lacking Box/Whiskers, and other graph/plotting functions.
• Built-in Speaker
• More Open OS (HPGCC, etc)

TI-89 Titanium:

• Higher Screen Resolution: 160x100
• Slower CPU: 12mhz (MC68000)
• Less RAM: 188K
• Most Flash: 2.7MB
• Better Lab Support (http://www.vernier.com/mbl/labpro.html" )
• Proprietary OS
• Better Classroom Support, Geared to Education

Now it's pretty clear the HP-50 kicks the snot out of the Ti-89 Titanium from a pure specification standpoint.

Everything being said; I bought a Ti-89 Titanium today because it has advanced statistics capabilities built in and better support by educators.

I've just buied the ti 89 and about the comparison I may say:

1) it may be programmable in C and motorola 68000 assembly language;
2) finally if you take a brief look at the ti 89 website you'll find all free software, support and community that cenvince anybody to buy it.

Regardles all other non texas websites; there is also a wiki site on it !

 

[chaoseverlasting]

Man! Why would you spend so much money on calculators? Most of these calculations you should be able to do by hand, and the ones that require graphing, you can program on the comp. But $140 for a calculator? Thats something.

 

[Mike Domanski]

Casio

@ 0rthodontist:


Just the other day my little brother was doing his algebra homework and he entered into his TI84+ SE: -2^4. What do you think his answer was?

He got -16, but everyone knows that it should be 16, that's because all calculators are infix.

the calculator saw -(2^4) but really he should have put (-2)^4 =, if we were to punch that into a RPN calculator all we need to do is {2, CHS, Enter, 4, X^Y}. Only a two button difference, but it's how your brain does math, hmm how simple.

Very true indeed, negative two to the fourth power has an even number of negs, which as we all know gives you a pos. A friends Casio gave us -16 as well. My little HP12C (a 25 year old calculator) gave the correct answer.

I was asked to figure out why the "Casio CFX-9850GC Plus" miscalculates fractions in parens out of the conventional order of operations. (i.e. giving an incorrecr answer)

It seems you have to enter in the parens AND an "x" between the fractions in parens to make the calculator do the correct order of operations.

The problem was: " 2/3 - 2/5 (divided by) (1/3)(-3/4) "
Casio said the answer was "2 and 4/15"
The Correct answer is 47/30 (aka 1 and 17/30)

What she wanted was a calculator where you enter in the problem from the book and get the answer in the back of the book.

With those stated issues, the HP seems a logical choice. Better to be truly "White and Nerdy"

Mike

 

[bfr]

I know this is kind of an old thread, but I registered on these forums just to reply to it. -2^4 should be -16 by order of operations; 2^4 is evaluated first, and it is 16, and then the opposite of it is taken. Powers/exponents come first - the TI-84+ SE was correct.

And, although HP (and Casio) calculators have many good features and are good for certain things, there seems to be an overal dislike of TIs, particulary the TI-89 Titanium here. A few issues:

- Some TI-89 programs aren't compatible with the TI-89 Titanium
> That can be fixed by installing a simple patch at www.ticalc.org. Many TI-89 programs still run on the TI-89 Titanium without a patch anyway.

- The TI-89 Titanium is slow
> This is hardly ever an issue. The TI-89 Titanium has been able to run grayscale 3-D games without any speed issues. Plus, a new TI-89 Titanium hardwar 4 has been released with offers a slightly faster CPU.

Also, there are many, many programs for the TI-89 (and the TI-89 Titanium), particularly at www.ticalc.org, if something isn't built-in, it can usually be downloaded. The TI-89 Titanium also has very advanced symbolic manipulation, and can simplify, expand, and manipulate all sorts of math, from trigonometry to calculus.

So, although the Hp 50g may have more RAM and a faster CPU (has the faster CPU ever really been taken advantage of anyway), the TI-89 Titanium is probably better for mathematics courses. Anyway, the first post in this thread contained: "Hey guys, I'm an actuary student and this semester my important math courses are Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra I besides financial math II. I also have calculus 3-4, Linear algebra II, Prob. I-II, and statistics I-II in my future." This probably would indicate that he/she was interested in a calculator particularly good in mathematics and that would have good education support.

Just to clarify, the HP 50g is pretty good and is better than the TI-89 Titanium in many ways, but it just seemed that the TI-89 Titanium was being looked at unfairly.

 

[odobo]

"What's wrong with a pen and paper?

Kids these days...

<wanders off grumbling to oneself>"


If you can integrate, for example, e^(-x^2) from 0 to 8 without a calculator or computer, then I guess you don't need one. But for most people, calculators save time.

Rpn alone makes hp superior, but rpn serves as a solid foundation for building powerful tools. In sum, hp built calculators for engineers and professionals and for use in the real world, and ti builds, well, toys for children.
Do you use a steel hammer to build a house, or do you use a childrens plastic toy hammer?

Just look at the resale value of old hp calcs on ebay. I saw an hp 15c go for 430 dollars. People that have used hp know their quality, and will pay ridiculous prices to get their favorite tool.

No one will EVER pay that much for an old ti, even if it still works.

 

[Danger]

I readily admit that I skipped all but the first page of this thread. Too damned many numbers in it.
All that I want to ask is: Why would you buy a calculator of any sort when you can get a laptop with calculator software for the same price or less?

 

[FrogPad]

... for the same price or less?

A TI-89 is ~200.00 (USD)

A cheap laptop is ~500 (USD).
A calculator is very convenient to use when compared to using more complex math programs. It is often useful when prototyping an answer to a problem. A calculator will have orders of magnitude more battery life than a laptop. Each serve a purpose.

 

[bfr]

"A TI-89 is ~200.00 (USD)" -> More like 150.00 these days. Calculators are even more portable than laptops, as portable as laptops are, and plus, they are probably allowed on more tests.

EDIT: Oh, and I think I'm missing something - what's so good about RPN? From what I can tell, it doesn't really seem more powerful or easier into enter, and I don't see how RPN alone would make HP superior. Could somebody please kindly explain the advantages of RPN? (And note that there is a program that let's the TI-89 have RPN)

 

[Danger]

A TI-89 is ~200.00 (USD)

A cheap laptop is ~500 (USD).

Ahhh... I'm not sure about calculators, but if you don't mind using one of those Windows-burning pieces of ****, you can get a Pentium 4 laptop for $350 CdnD, which is probably about $320 USD at today's exchange rate, where I live. The good stuff, unfortunately, runs a bit steeper.

 

[FrogPad]

Ahhh... I'm not sure about calculators, but if you don't mind using one of those Windows-burning pieces of ****, you can get a Pentium 4 laptop for $350 CdnD, which is probably about $320 USD at today's exchange rate, where I live. The good stuff, unfortunately, runs a bit steeper.

True that. A Pentium 4 would run what can be done (and a lot more) on a calculator just fun.

I would just vote for convenience than. I can easily have my calculator on me at all times, it is not so easy to take a laptop around.

Plus, with heightened security at the airport ... just kidding

 

[ranger]

EDIT: Oh, and I think I'm missing something - what's so good about RPN? From what I can tell, it doesn't really seem more powerful or easier into enter, and I don't see how RPN alone would make HP superior. Could somebody please kindly explain the advantages of RPN? (And note that there is a program that let's the TI-89 have RPN)

This has been discussed already.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=157962

If you're still unclear about RPN, feel free to resurrect that old thread.

[And yea, that $200 USD is an exaggeration of the current price]

 

[ranger]

Ahhh... I'm not sure about calculators, but if you don't mind using one of those Windows-burning pieces of ****, you can get a Pentium 4 laptop for $350 CdnD, which is probably about $320 USD at today's exchange rate, where I live. The good stuff, unfortunately, runs a bit steeper.

I think you're relying too much on the forum censorship software You could have said **** and kept the angry vibe.

EDIT: OK then, probably turd

 

[FrogPad]

This has been discussed already.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=157962

If you're still unclear about RPN, feel free to resurrect that old thread.

[And yea, that $200 USD is an exaggeration of the current price]

Damn. Those things have dropped in price.