Which Thermodynamic Process Governs Gas Filling an Evacuated Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying the thermodynamic process governing the behavior of a gas filling an evacuated space. Participants explore various thermodynamic processes, including isochoric, isobaric, adiabatic, and isothermal, while considering the implications of volume changes and temperature variations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the assumptions applicable to the problem, concluding that the process is not isochoric or isobaric, and suggests it might be isothermal despite concerns about temperature changes during gas expansion.
  • Another participant introduces the ideal gas law (PV = nRT) and questions how the gas could return to its original state after expanding into the evacuated chamber.
  • A participant attempts to relate initial and final states using the ideal gas law but notes a lack of information on pressure and temperature for the final state.
  • One participant posits that if no heat enters or leaves the tank and no work is done, the internal energy of the gas remains constant.
  • Another participant agrees that the internal energy is constant, suggesting the process is isothermal, while raising concerns about maintaining constant temperature during expansion without heat exchange.
  • A later reply elaborates on the dynamic transient processes occurring during gas expansion, mentioning local cooling and heating effects, and concludes that the overall effect results in no temperature change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on which thermodynamic process applies. There are competing views regarding the nature of the process, particularly concerning isothermal conditions and the effects of expansion on temperature.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the assumptions required for the problem, particularly regarding the definitions of the thermodynamic processes and the implications of gas expansion on temperature and internal energy.

gfd43tg
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I am not sure what assumption I can make for this problem and why it's valid. It certainly isn't isochoric. Since the volume changes, I conclude its not isobaric either (P should decrease). I don't think it's adiabatic because the part (b) clearly hints that it is not reversible in part (a). That leaves me with isothermal. But if a gas expands, it's temperature should decrease.

Therefore, I don't know which of these processes I could use to solve for the final temperature.
 

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What about PV = nRT?

If you expanded some gas into an evacuated chamber, can you think of a way the gas would 'unexpand' itself back to its original state?
 
Right. Well, if I do

P1V1 = RT1
P2V1 = RT2

then I get P1/T1 = P2/T2.

However, I only have P1 and T1.
 
If you think of the tank as a black box, then no heat enters or leaves the tank, and no work is done on it. So what does that tell you about the change in internal energy of its contents?

Chet
 
The internal energy is constant, so it is isothermal.

It is a bit troubling to think about gas expanding at constant temperature without having heat removed or added in order to maintain the constant T.
 
Maylis said:
The internal energy is constant, so it is isothermal.

It is a bit troubling to think about gas expanding at constant temperature without having heat removed or added in order to maintain the constant T.
In the dynamic transient process that occurs in the tank before the system finally equilibrates, several things are happening, including local expansion against adjacent gas (tendency to cool), local recompression in some regions (tendency to heat), local acceleration to develop kinetic energy, and viscous dissipation of kinetic energy (tendency to heat). The overall final net effect is no temperature change.

Chet
 

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