News Who do you want to win (for non-Americans)

[Moonbear]

Why the disconnect then with Domestic and Foreign perspective on the Iraq War?

Or are domestic opinion and International opinion both aligned and it's only the Republicans that are clinging to this strategy of invasion and occupation?

Not a disconnect on the Iraq war, but that there are other issues that are important domestically, such as the economy, taxes, role of government in our personal lives, etc. The Iraq war is only one of many issues, it just happens to be the only international issue on the plate while all the other issues are domestic in nature.

 

[GCT]

Not a disconnect on the Iraq war, but that there are other issues that are important domestically, such as the economy, taxes, role of government in our personal lives, etc. The Iraq war is only one of many issues, it just happens to be the only international issue on the plate while all the other issues are domestic in nature.

Your arguments on why Obama is favored among the Europeans makes sense with the exception of your claims on them being ignorant about the economic situation , many Europeans are pretty savvy when it comes to this type of knowledge and they have a greater span in the history of politics ... I wonder if the poll -the one that was officially conducted recently - reveals why they had voted for Obama. Although this poll may actually reveal that you are right.

Note the recent issue of certain " whites " having certain stereotypes on " blacks " and why this could cost Obama the election ; I recently found this poll on Yahoo or Politico - seems that Europeans don't have an issue with this according to the poll , are the " blacks " in Britain a separate breed of some sort?

 

[cristo]

Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them.

I don't think this is true, anymore. The US economy is intertwined with that of the rest of the world to such an extent that it doesn't make sense for us to be wishing your economy ill. One simply needs to look at the current situation to see that.

 

[humanino]

Wir want ze governator to become ze president.

Most people abroad feel concerned about your pick. You do have a responsibility, if I may recall you, your previous choice had a serious influence on the life and death of many. Actually, I wonder how many non-american would consider themselves "highly concerned" compared to the total number of american voters.

Remember John Cleese's message last time ? To the citizens of the United States of America

 

[Andre]

I don't think I would have voted. Intuitively I'd vote democrat since they stand for what I support. But democrats are also much more susceptable to become victims of http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html , which I can see now, has been the most disastrous shortcomings of mankind.

 

[Astronuc]

I thought you were a US Citizen. Don't you belong over in the other poll?

I am resident Alien who just happens to have an Australian passport. Personally, I don't recognize national borders, but I do realize all peoples' rights to live in peace and harmony with each other and Nature, and along with that security.

My wife and kids are American.

I'm just passing through.

 

[Astronuc]

The US government thinks so too, but his superiors in the Russian secret service know better

Astronuc, I hope you don't mind the bad joke. You live in the US, but are from Australia, right ?

Ah, before I forget it: One German would-be vote for Obama.

I've had some interesting interactions with quite a few Russians.

No Astronuc is un-American. He's not naturalized.

Un-naturalized

I have brought quite a bit of foreign exchange into the US.

 

[nabki]

i would like to know who is the other person who voted for mccain.
there are a few downsides to mccain becoming the next president. for instance, i will probably get drafted .

 

[vanesch]

Non-Americans are not going to be as concerned with domestic policy...for that matter, the worse off the US economy is, the better it is for them.

I certainly would not agree with that. Cristo's right: the economy in many places, and certainly in Europe, is suffering because of the (US) subprime crisis and aftershocks. If the US financial system collapses, then we're in big doodoo too. Of course, we're less concerned with minor issues of domestic policy (like exact tax policies and so on), that's only American's business.

I voted (of course) Obama, but I have to say that I'm not a big fan of him, there are a lot of things that disturb me about him. However, McCain, and especially since he took on that gun-totting woman as a deputy, looks to me as a totally disconnected senile grandpa. We've seen the consequences of a small light in the White House. In the beginning, we thought it was going to be funny. It wasn't. I think the rest of the world will be entirely able to live with a guy like Obama in the WH. I'm not sure we can do with a Bush-III.

 

[Alfi]

25 to 2 ( at time of writing )

I guess our little poll shows that the non-American opinion is not so 50/50 as the polls show the American opinion to be.

 

[Kurdt]

i would like to know who is the other person who voted for mccain.
there are a few downsides to mccain becoming the next president. for instance, i will probably get drafted .

Does that mean you're american and voted for McCain on the non-american poll?

 

[nabki]

nope.

 

[baywax]

I voted (of course) Obama, but I have to say that I'm not a big fan of him, there are a lot of things that disturb me about him.

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician. So are football players (ruthless). I think it comes with the game.

 

[lisab]

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician. So are football players (ruthless). I think it comes with the game.

Well he's definitely a skilled politician...after all, he beat the Clintons.

 

[baywax]

Well he's definitely a skilled politician...after all, he beat the Clintons.

Yes, skilled is the word! I saw Bill C. on Letterman last night. What an American! Almost makes me want to be one. Very thoughtful and all encompassing. You can see he's pushing to employ consilience to pull America out of any crisis. He said "people who bet against America always lose". He heh. At one time one of the cameras had this angle of him that made him look like a sculpture for the Clinton Memorial.

 

[vanesch]

I'm pretty sure we all have skeletons... in the closet. He is a fairly ruthless politician.

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

I can't define it, but it is the same feeling as with the perfect car deal: a super car, with all the options, low consumption, high quality... for half the price than the competition. Even if everything looks ok, you tell yourself: there's something fishy about this deal.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We can throw in some Obama votes from Brazil.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=257441

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

This seems to be a universal problem for those seeking national executive office in any country. The promises/goals expressed in the campaigns do not match up to the every day post-election reality.

 

[humanino]

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

I have no idea how you can dare compare Obama to Sarkozy. They are not the slightest alike, I actually perceive them as opposite. You call Sarkozy's campaign brilliant, but I did not see that, for me he has never changed and has never had the size of the suit he his wearing now (I mean internal size ) Brilliant compared to Royal maybe, but Obama is brilliant even ignoring McCain. Anytime I see Sarkozy represent our country, I feel this must be a (bad) joke. He does not have a vision, he never had, he copies recipes... from the US ! When I hear Sarkozy, now in office, I do not hear intellectual honesty, I hear pleasant words for the understanding of the vast majority of voters : well that's not even true during his campaign for Obama.

 

[vanesch]

I have no idea how you can dare compare Obama to Sarkozy. They are not the slightest alike, I actually perceive them as opposite.

Yes, Sarkozy is much too far to the left to my taste, and my hope during his campaign was that this was not going to be so. I see Sarkozy as 100 miles to the left of Obama.

The promise I missed with Sarkozy was that finally we were going to get some more liberalism in France, but the failure I see is that he backs down, as has any other politician in France, to the leftish syndicalism and "returns to the state will solve it all for you" mentality.

I thought his campaign was around: "you want it, you work for it", but we see again "Mr. statesman that will solve all your troubles for ya" - while he clearly can't, as no politician can. I thought that this was the change he would have brought about: "the state is not responsible for your well-being, only for creating the possibility for you to serve your own well-being", but no. We're back to the good old "I'll solve it for ya". He backed away from about all his promises during his campaign, because each time there were some protests, and he can't stand that. He backed away from total autonomy for the universities (with my hope that this would be the first step towards privatizing education in France), he backed away from opening up the market for competition with taxis, notaires, pharmacies, ... , he backed away from opening up the market totally for supermarkets,... and now he wants to increase purchase power of the people - that's about the last thing a politician should be involved with! If you look at him, you almost see Chirac bis, but without the stature.

 

[Borek]

This seems to be a universal problem for those seeking national executive office in any country. The promises/goals expressed in the campaigns do not match up to the every day post-election reality.

That's why I base my selection of candidates not on promises, but on whether I would like to have them as neighbours.

 

[Astronuc]

That's why I base my selection of candidates not on promises, but on whether I would like to have them as neighbours.

I wouldn't mind having McCain or Obama as next door neighbors, but they would have to move to my neighborhood. I can't afford to live in their neighborhoods.

 

[somasimple]

Yes, Sarkozy is much too far to the left to my taste, and my hope during his campaign was that this was not going to be so. I see Sarkozy as 100 miles to the left of Obama.

Sarkozy at left? Not at all! He just use arguments to gain votes and "kill" the PS.

 

[vanesch]

Sarkozy at left? Not at all! He just use arguments to gain votes and "kill" the PS.

When I say "left" I mean economically left of course.

In that sense he's very left-wing. State intervention, state intervention, state intervention.
A statement like "I'm the president of the purchase power of the people" cannot be anything but a leftist statement. A right-wing guy would never say such a thing. He'd say: "you will have the purchase power you generate yourself and if you don't find it sufficient, then you only have yourself to blame." A right-wing guy would never go and visit a company and try to talk them in not closing a factory or so. He'd say that the factory has to be there where it can make highest income for lowest expense, and if that happens to be in Poland or China, then that's the place to go. A right-wing guy would never visit farmers or fishermen or whatever and tell them that the state will help them. He'd rather say that if they think that their way of making money is not pleasing them, they should go into another business where they think they can get more for their assets, and if they can't find any better place, well, then that means that they get their true market price out of it.

 

[dron]

Republicans or Democrats from a non-US perspective? Hm. Do you remember when Clinton bombed the pharmaceutical factory in Sudan that was indirectly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths? Perhaps you recall that his administration gave more money to the two worst human rights violators of the 90s (Columbia and Turkey) than to any other country? Iraq sanctions anyone? "Bombies"?

And these were the good guys!

In short: It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government will still get in.

 

[somasimple]

A right-wing guy would never go and visit a company and try to talk them in not closing a factory or so.

Did he change a thing? Just a social illusion... But the strike was...avoided.

 

[baywax]

Oh, no, I like that. No, there's a feeling I have about Obama that makes him look a bit like Sarkozy in France: the "unkept promise". A brilliant campaign, full of good ideas etc... but once in power, confronted with the realities of the day-to-day political machine, business as usual.

I can't define it, but it is the same feeling as with the perfect car deal: a super car, with all the options, low consumption, high quality... for half the price than the competition. Even if everything looks ok, you tell yourself: there's something fishy about this deal.

I say ruthless because of an article I read about Obama knocking out his mentor in politics in Chicago. She had left politics for some reason then came back to run for a high position... perhaps Senator. Obama went for the same position and won by pointing out certain defects in her policies... and perhaps other, more personal details. I have been unable to find the article since.

So, who do you trust? A person who relies on the emotions of the constituents and their fears about being bombed to get them re-elected? Or do you risk it with someone who has a dream that may or may not be enacted once in office?

 

[vanesch]

So, who do you trust? A person who relies on the emotions of the constituents and their fears about being bombed to get them re-elected? Or do you risk it with someone who has a dream that may or may not be enacted once in office?

If you point to McCain-Obama, there's no discussion. I voted Obama without the slightest bit of hesitation.

 

[vanesch]

Did he change a thing? Just a social illusion... But the strike was...avoided.

A strike in a private company that is going to close down shouldn't affect a right-wing guy the slightest: it is part of the market mechanism that establishes the right price for labor.

BTW, I'm not saying that I myself am in favor for a right-wing policy like that ; I'm only pointing out that Sarkozy is effectively leading a very left-wing economical policy. Maybe less left-wing than usual, but nevertheless very state-intervention and regulation oriented, not to obtain highest efficiency, but rather to redistribute and "solve people's problems" which it doesn't, btw.
He seems to be aware of it himself, as he needs to state himself that he's "right wing"
He tries to, but he can't.

 

[redargon]

I vote mugabe, but damn, he's too busy with his own problems. Mbeki needs a new job after resigning, maybe he's willing to try something new.

nah, actually I think it would be pretty cool for the US to have their first female or black president, seeing that hillary is out of the race, I go Obama! plus it rhymes with Alabama if you say it right and his first name is kinda like "the rock".

hmmm... to be honest I don't give a rat's. :crawls into foetal position under desk and awaits punishment: