The discussion centers around the death of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, exploring the circumstances surrounding his demise in prison. Participants examine theories regarding potential foul play, the implications of his return to Russia, and the broader context of political repression in Russia. The conversation includes speculation on the nature of his death, possible motivations behind it, and the historical patterns of state violence against political opponents.
Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether Navalny's death was a murder or a result of natural causes. There is a shared acknowledgment of the dangerous political environment in Russia, but differing opinions on the specifics of Navalny's situation and the motivations behind his death.
Participants note the lack of concrete evidence available to support claims of murder, and the discussion is influenced by the broader context of political repression in Russia, including historical patterns of state violence.
I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?Astronuc said:
You mean other than the fact that they tried before?Vanadium 50 said:
AND the fact that Putin has made it clear that he wants his opponents dead and has had several of them murdered? He likely didn't even have to give a specific order to have Navalny killed in prison.fresh_42 said:
A commentator here said: "He was kept under circumstances under which a healthy person would have struggled to survive."phinds said:
Probably just food poisoning.phinds said:
Sorry, but this is a contradiction in itself.Greg Bernhardt said:
There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal, simplistic and law-bound for this kind of deed regularly done in dictatorships.Astronuc said:
Probably too risky in case someone decides to allow an autopsy. The Russian winter in a Russian gulag did the job for nothing.russ_watters said:
Maybe that was my point... this thread is likely not long for this worldfresh_42 said:
I'm sure there is. Is it available to an objective entity? Most likely not.Vanadium 50 said:
I'm using the legal term, which is conventionally and universally understood to mean, 'unjustified or illegal, or otherwise, 'unlawful and premeditated' homicide'.Rive said:
There is actually a good reason to close it before anybody says something that might bring them into trouble in case they want or have to travel to Russia for professional reasons.Greg Bernhardt said:
... especially with the many assassinations of Russians on British and German ground in mind. Proof? A German court hasn't had any doubt. That is more than I can ever quote from the internet.PeroK said:
Or walking, he died following a walk. That's pretty reckless behaviour.russ_watters said:
Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...Astronuc said:
Claims are he spent 280 days in isolation up to his death.Rive said:Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...
That would have probably not saved him.fresh_42 said:
Source:
It would at least have been a lot easier to protect him.Sagittarius A-Star said:
Yes. In 2020 he was protected by the German BKA, while he was in hospital in Germany.fresh_42 said:
And after that, he made in 2020 an interesting telephone call.pinball1970 said:
Source (i.e. at 11m20s):
"Trotsky/i was blanked/assassinated/icepicked/rockpicked...?" He got Trotskied, perhaps? No question who ordered it; one might offer the term "Beria'd" to keep with the spirit, if not the sense/feeling of the event.Rive said:
Not repellent enough.Frabjous said:
Yes, that's exactly what I am asking.fresh_42 said:
Putin is an old Большевики and probably did what they always did: let the Russian winter and the ГУЛаг do the job. I assume that Новичо́к (##LD_{50}=1\,mg##) has set the stage for them to work.Vanadium 50 said: