Why can't time-varying EM fields exist in a perfect conductor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of time-varying electromagnetic (EM) fields in perfect conductors, particularly in the context of transformers with iron cores. Participants explore the implications of Maxwell's equations and boundary conditions in relation to the operation of transformers and the properties of materials like iron.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that according to Maxwell's equations, time-varying EM fields cannot exist in a perfect conductor, while static magnetic fields can.
  • Another participant points out that in iron, the magnetic field decreases rapidly with penetration, introducing the concept of skin depth and its relevance to the behavior of magnetic fields in conductors.
  • A participant suggests that the lamination of transformer cores may serve to reduce eddy currents and address the skin effect, allowing for more effective flux carrying.
  • There is a question raised about whether time-varying electric fields exist within the skin depth of a conductor, indicating uncertainty about the behavior of fields in this region.
  • Discussion includes the consideration of alternative materials for transformer cores, such as silicon steel and cobalt alloys, which may enhance resistivity and mitigate issues related to time-varying fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of time-varying fields in conductors, particularly regarding transformers. There is no consensus on the reconciliation of these concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of perfect conductors and the specific conditions under which the behavior of EM fields is analyzed. The discussion also touches on the mathematical treatment of skin depth without resolving the implications for transformer operation.

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I understand that according to Maxwell's equations time-varying EM fields cannot exist in a perfect conductor (but static magnetic fields can). Also if you have a time-varying magnetic field you also have time-varying electric field and vice versa. And this knowledge is used to solve EM wave problems by fixing boundary conditions between conductor and dielectric mediums.

However, I get confused/baffled when I try to apply this boundary condition (that time-varying EM fields cannot exist in a conductor) to a transformer with iron core. I understand that a changing current creates a changing magnetic field (by Ampere's law?), which I assume is equivalent to a time-varying magnetic field, in the iron core.

Now, since the core is a good conductor shouldn't there be no EM field within it? But then, this would imply no time-varying flux within the iron core and transformer cannot work, which is obviously not true. Could someone kindly help me reconcile these two examples? Where did I go wrong? Thanks in advance.
 
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In iron, the magnetic field falls off rapidly with penetration so that
[tex]|B|=\mu H_0 \exp[-z/2\delta][/tex], where
[tex]\delta=c/\sqrt{8\pi\mu\sigma\omega}[/tex] (in gaussian units) is the
"skin depth". An integral of this B gives the flux.
 
Last edited:
Pam, thank you. Your answer may explain why the transformers are made of laminated iron cores. I just assumed the lamination was to reduce eddy currents but I guess it also is a way to get around skin effect of single core to carry more flux. One more thing, within the skin depth, the time varying E field exists also, right? I guess making transformers with superconductor cores may not be a good idea.
 
pam said:
In iron, the magnetic field falls off rapidly with penetration so that
[tex]|B|=\mu H_0 \exp[-z/2\delta][/tex], where
[tex]\delta=c/\sqrt{8\pi\mu\sigma\omega}[/tex] (in gaussian units) is the
"skin depth". An integral of this B gives the flux.

Pam,
You make a good point about the problem with iron. Because of this, most transformer and motor laminations are made of silicon steel (often grain oriented), or cobalt alloys, or nickel alloys which, among other benefits, significantly raise the resistivity of the metal.
 

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