Why do different elements have different charges?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of atomic charges in different elements, particularly focusing on why elements like oxygen and phosphorus exhibit varying charges. The scope includes theoretical aspects of chemistry and electron configurations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the use of the term "happy" in describing atomic stability, suggesting it lacks scientific accuracy.
  • Another participant proposes that quantum chemistry limits electron configurations, which may explain the differing charges of elements.
  • There is confusion among participants regarding the grouping of oxygen and phosphorus in the periodic table.
  • A participant clarifies that "happy" refers to a system's preference for lower energy configurations.
  • Further inquiry is made into the mechanics of energy differences between individual atoms and ionic compounds, specifically questioning why sodium chloride has lower energy than separate sodium and chlorine atoms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and differing views regarding the classification of elements and the terminology used to describe atomic stability. There is no consensus on the explanations provided for the varying charges of elements.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about atomic behavior and energy states are not fully explored, and there is a lack of clarity on the definitions of terms used in the discussion.

Fifty
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Since I was first introduced to chemistry, it's been because "it has two more than eight, and it wants eight to be "happy" so it loses two electrons and gains a positive two charge."

It's good enough for me to write on tests, but 'happy' isn't exactly a scientifically accurate term.
And why can similar elements have different charges? For example, why can oxygen be 2 and 1, but phosphorus (same group) can be +/- 3, 5 and -2?
 
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Short answer: the answer lies in limits quantum chemistry puts on electron configurations.
 
Since when are oxygen and phosphorus in the same group?
 
Hi Fifty! :smile:
Fifty said:
… 'happy' isn't exactly a scientifically accurate term.

'happy' means 'with lower energy' …

any system naturally prefers the configuration with the lowest energy

if chlorine can grab an electron from sodium, then the chlorine-sodium pair has lower energy, and is 'happier' o:)
 
DrDu said:
Since when are oxygen and phosphorus in the same group?
Sorry, for some inexplicable reason I always get Sulphur and Phosphorus confused.
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Fifty! :smile:


'happy' means 'with lower energy' …

any system naturally prefers the configuration with the lowest energy

if chlorine can grab an electron from sodium, then the chlorine-sodium pair has lower energy, and is 'happier' o:)

How, exactly does this work? There is still the same amount of particles (and matter) so why should the Sodium Chloride particle have less energy than one Sodium atom and one Chlorine atom?
 

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