Why do electrons have more kinetic energy when closer to the nucleus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the kinetic and potential energy of electrons in relation to their distance from the nucleus. Participants explore concepts from classical and quantum mechanics, addressing how these energies change as electrons move closer to or further from the nucleus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why electrons have less potential energy when closer to the nucleus, suggesting that increased proximity leads to greater electrostatic attraction and thus more kinetic energy.
  • Another participant explains that in a Coulomb potential well, potential energy decreases as distance decreases, leading to an increase in kinetic energy due to conservation of total energy.
  • A classical analogy is presented comparing electrons to planets in a solar system, where planets closer to the sun have more kinetic energy and less potential energy.
  • One participant elaborates on the concept of work done on charges, stating that moving charges apart requires positive work, which increases potential energy, while moving them closer involves negative work, decreasing potential energy.
  • A later reply emphasizes that in quantum mechanics, electrons are confined to energy levels, and a decrease in potential energy must correspond to an increase in kinetic energy when moving closer to the nucleus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between potential and kinetic energy as electrons move in relation to the nucleus, but there are differing explanations and analogies used to clarify these concepts. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved as participants explore various interpretations and analogies.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about classical and quantum mechanics without resolving the complexities of these frameworks. The explanations rely on the Coulomb potential and the concept of work, which may not fully encompass all nuances of electron behavior in quantum systems.

dolimitless
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Also similarly, why do electrons have less potential energy when closer to the nucleus?

Please can someone help me and explain in laymen's terms? I don't understand it. I know when electrons are separated by large distances, they are less likely to interact with the positive charge of the protons of the nucleus. Is that why there is less "potential" energy?

So, there is more kinetic energy (energy due to motion) when electrons are closer to the nucleus, because the electrostatic attraction is greater?
 
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Treating an electron classically, it is in a Coulomb potential well, proportional to 1/distance (similar to the one I plotted in the picture attached). The potential energy is clearly lower at small values of x, i.e. closer to the nucleus. Since total energy must be conserved the decrease in potential energy causes an increase in kinetic energy of the electron.

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ya that's da correct answer above this note!
 
A good classical analogy is to think of the atom in the planetary model sense. It may or may not seem like common sense to you that planets close to the sun have more kinetic energy and less potential, and those farther away have less kinetic and more potential. The reasoning is exactly the same as given in the above post, but perhaps the analogy is useful.
 
dolimitless said:
why do electrons have less potential energy when closer to the nucleus?

Suppose you have a positive and a negative charge, held at a certain distance from each other. In order to increase the distance between them, you have to pull them apart (against their mutual attraction) by exerting a force on one or both of them, and thereby do (positive) work on them. If the charges start at rest, and end at rest when you have finished pulling them apart (or at least have the same speed and therefore the same kinetic energy before and after), then by definition the change in potential energy equals the work that you have done. You do positive work when you move the charges further apart, therefore the potential energy increases as the distance increases, and decreases as the distance decreases.
 
So moving them closer is doing negative work?
 
Yes. One thing to remember is that in quantum mechanics, the electrons are confined to constant energy levels. So in the ground state, the total energy of the electron stays constant. If the electron moves closer to the nucleus, the potential energy due to the Coulombic potential decreases and thus we must have a matching increase in the kinetic energy.
 
Glenn Rudge said:
So moving them closer is doing negative work?

Yes... negative work done on the charges, which is the same as positive work done on you (or on whatever is holding the charges back and keeping them from "free-falling").
 

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