Why do things produce sound even though no pressure is applied to them?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of sound production, particularly in everyday scenarios such as opening a chip packet. Participants explore the mechanics of sound as a propagating pressure wave and seek to understand the sources of pressure that lead to sound generation without direct application of force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that sound is a propagating pressure through a medium and questions how this model applies to everyday experiences like opening a chip packet.
  • Another participant suggests that the stiffness of the chip packet causes it to resist deformation, leading to rapid movements that create pressure waves, resulting in sound.
  • A different participant emphasizes that sound is a mechanical wave generated by various mechanical operations, providing examples such as seismic waves and vocal cord vibrations.
  • One participant explains that any surface moving against air creates localized pressure due to resistance, which then propagates as sound, particularly highlighting the crackling sound from the chip packet.
  • References to Feynman are made regarding the propagation of sound, though the relevance and complexity of the material are questioned by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and complexity regarding the mechanics of sound production. While there are shared views on sound as a pressure wave, the specific mechanisms and examples provided lead to differing interpretations and levels of clarity.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion over the technical aspects discussed, indicating that the explanations may be too complex for the intended audience. There are also references to specific works by Feynman that are not universally understood among participants.

leoneul
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I understand that sound is a propagating pressure through a medium. We produced pressure and it’ll propagate through the medium as “sound”. How can we use this model to understand everyday-life experiences like opening a chips packaging and the packaging makes a sound, and alike. In the chips example, where does the pressure even come from so that the sound we hear is produced?
 
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This is just an educated guess:

The crinkly plastic of a chip packet ('crisp packet' to our UK users) is a bit stiff, so that it does not deform smoothly like a piece of soft cloth does. Accordingly, when we bend it with our hands, as we do when opening it. it resists briefly and then gives way in a triggering sort of movement. A triggered movement is much faster than a smooth one, and hence will compress the air it is moving towards much more than a slow gradual movement will. That brief but fast compression creates a high-pitched pressure wave that we hear.

The crinkling sound we hear when somebody is handling a packet of chips is the combination of many pressure waves from lots of little triggerings, as the packet briefly resists and then triggers in many different places.
 
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leoneul said:
I understand that sound is a propagating pressure through a medium. We produced pressure and it’ll propagate through the medium as “sound”.
Not quite ... Sound is a propagating pressure wave in a medium :smile:
It is mechanical wave generated by any mechanical operation, from the slipping of rock on a fault line
causing seismic P waves, to a hammer striking metal, to your vocal cords vibrating to produce sound wavesDave
 
leoneul said:
where does the pressure even come from
If any surface moves against a body of air, then there will be a force against the resistance of the surrounding air (i.e. pressure as the air is slightly compressed), locally. In the long term, the air will flow and equalise the pressure. The step increase in pressure will propagate outwards and gradually disperse. The individual small parts of a crisp packet surface will move in small steps which will produce many small pressure peaks (whereas a piece of cloth will tend to flow silently). We hear those peaks as a crackling sound.
 
leoneul said:
We produced pressure and it’ll propagate through the medium as “sound”.

Feynman - perhaps not to say in which book - in the second paragraph of chapter 47-2 describe the propagation of sound in a manner described above.

How the strange sound is created can be thought of, but in its own way, every voice is weird.
 
Periwinkle said:
Feynman - perhaps not to say in which book - in the second paragraph of chapter 47-2 describe the propagation of sound in a manner described above.

seriously too complex for a B level thread ... Half of it was even over my head
 

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