Why do x rays travel faster than light in some states of matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of x-rays in various states of matter, particularly focusing on the concept of refractive index and phase velocity. Participants explore the implications of a refractive index less than one for x-rays and its relation to the speed of light in different media.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why some matter has a refractive index of slightly less than one for x-rays, suggesting this implies a phase velocity faster than the speed of light in vacuum.
  • Another participant explains that the dielectric constant behaves differently around resonance, affecting the refractive index and phase velocity, while emphasizing that signal velocity is determined by group velocity, not phase velocity.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about what exactly is traveling faster than the speed of light in the context of x-rays, given the standard definition of refractive index.
  • A request for original sources is made, indicating a need for clarification on the claims being discussed.
  • One participant cites a Wikipedia article that mentions certain wavelengths and materials having a refractive index less than one, specifically in relation to x-rays.
  • Another participant reiterates the relationship between phase speed in a medium and the speed of light in vacuum, confirming that phase speed can exceed c for some frequencies.
  • A participant references the Wikipedia article to clarify that the phase speed exceeding c does not contradict relativity, as it distinguishes between phase speed and group speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty and seek clarification on the implications of phase velocity and refractive index for x-rays, indicating that multiple views and interpretations exist without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on specific frequencies and the conditions under which the refractive index can be less than one, as well as the distinction between phase speed and group speed, which remains unresolved in the discussion.

Gobil
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hi All,

why is this? some matter has a refractive index of slightly less than one for light in the x ray region. This implies a phase velocity faster than c, right? could someone explain what is actually happening here?

THANKS!
 
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The dielectric constant increases when approaching a resonance (normal dispersion), decreases rapidly in the resonance region (anomalous dispersion) and increases again after the resonance. In the optical region and below, the relative dielectric function is mostly >1, as the electonic resonances are somewhere in the UV. Above the UV all resonances are to the left and the dielectric function approaches 1 from below.
Phase velocity may take on (almost) any value you like, as signal velocity depends on group velocity, not on phase velocity.
 
but normally the refractive index is described as c/v, where v is the velocity of the light in the medium with index n. so what is traveling faster than c in the case of xrays?
 
Can you point us at the originla source for what you write? Otherwise we are trying to explain something we can only guess about.
 
Gobil said:
but normally the refractive index is described as c/v, where v is the velocity of the light in the medium with index n. so what is traveling faster than c in the case of xrays?

The phase speed v in the medium is in deed higher than the phase speed in vacuo c.
 
And x-rays don't appear in the Wiki article. What exactly is your question?
 
thanks Dr. Du,

does this mean the phase speed is greater than c in vacuo too, for some frequencies?

Vanadium 50,

From the posted wiki article:

"The number n is typically greater than one. However, at certain frequencies (e.g. near absorption resonances, and for X-rays), n will actually be smaller than one[7] (see also Cherenkov radiation). This does not contradict the theory of relativity, which holds that no information-carrying signal can ever propagate faster than c, because the phase speed is not the same as the group speed or the signal speed."
 

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