Why do you put up with Windows?

[graphic7]

Also dduardo, from my understanding (recent reading), UML or Xen do not have any sort of Fair Share Scheduling. This allows me to allocate n number of CPUs to a specific zone for sharing or actual allocation.

 

[faust9]

I've heard of UML before. I've never used it, therefore, I won't badmouth UML (for the moment)

I will, however, tell about my experience with Solaris zones.

I can setup a fully functional Solaris zone in roughly 5 minutes, not counting the install procedure (which is totally automated and about 5 more minutes of time).

The commands zoneadm and zonecfg are very nice for writing scripts for.

Once the zone is installed, you can have access to the zone's console, which is a tty, not a ptty.

When the global zone is patched, patches can be applied to the non-global zones, themselves. Or you can localize patch applications to one or two, or so on non-global zones and leave the global zone not effected. You can also install packages this way.

Last I recall, UML was a kernel patch. Has it been incorporated into the base kernel, yet? Solaris zones have been deemed for production use. I've heard of a few sys admins already using them to start minimizing the number of actual systems running.

So, essentially what you are saying is that you're a solaris zealot (the term you've generously thrown at others be they linux zealots or not) simply because you use it and have not had a comperable experience using Linux. How often do you use Linux BTW?

 

[graphic7]

So, essentially what you are saying is that you're a solaris zealot (the term you've generously thrown at others be they linux zealots or not) simply because you use it and have not had a comperable experience using Linux. How often do you use Linux BTW?

Incorrect. I've recently been doing quite a bit of AIX administration. I would actually recommend AIX for some things over Solaris, however, for a general workstation/server OS, I would use Solaris any day of the week.

I last installed a Linux distribution, Gentoo, roughly two weeks ago. I played around with it for several days and was not impressed, pending an immediate uninstall. Before that, I ran Fedora Core 2 for about 6 months. I was glad to move that system to a FreeBSD install. I used Linux heavily about 2 years ago - a big Debian/Redhat ~7.3-- user. I fell out of the Linux crowd and moved to FreeBSD, then onto Solaris and AIX.

I would say I have a decent amount of Linux experience to make an accurate decision regarding OS superiority concerning Linux. I administered around 20 Redhat/Debian servers at my last posting.

A few years ago I was quite a Linux zealot, myself. I never would've ran Solaris or any other propiertary operating system, until I started using them heavily. Not just a quick install and humour break, but for serious system administration.

 

[graphic7]

Here's a nice Solaris zones tutorial/overview:

http://www.blastwave.org/docs/Solaris-10-b51/DMC-0002/dmc-0002.html

And, and another thing called `Live Upgrade,' or simply LU:

Live Upgrade allows a system to do an install or an upgrade of Solaris on a running Solaris system (x86 & Sparc). If I have a 2 9gb partitions, one with the running version of Solaris and the other blank, I can use the LU utility to either upgrade, which clones the 9gb partition, and then does the upgrade, or I can just do the install without the cloning process. While the system is still running (all services uninterrupted), the Solaris upgrade or install will be happening on the other partition. I can then reboot, and I'll be running the newer version of Solaris, while the older version will be inactive. I can then reformat that partition and use it for something else.

This allows someone to upgrade a system with the only downtime being the time it takes to reboot a system. The only downside to LU is that it requires some extra space to take place.

I'd like to see a Linux system do that.

 

[graphic7]

I would actually try OpenSolaris when it is released, but it has even worse driver support than Linux. Nvidia only supplies accelerated drivers for Linux and FreeBSD.

At the moment there is no DRI support in Solaris. I'm using an Nvidia GeForce2 and Matrox G450 on my Solaris workstations. Of course they aren't doing anything 3d, that would require acceleration, but they run fine.

OpenSolaris is edging out slowly. From my understanding the OpenSolaris codebase will be essentially the same as what the Solaris 10 codebase is now. Eventually Sun will be using builds of OpenSolaris for Solaris customer shippings. You can think of the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris as something between OpenOffice and StarOffice.

Solaris 10 is free now, but OpenSolaris will be open-source-free later on. You should go ahead and give 10 a try.

Edit: Be sure to check the HCL at http://www.bigadmin.com. This has a list of hardware that is supported in Solaris. As you know, Solaris doesn't support everything. My Xeon is SCSI-based and almost everything is supported, however, the SB Live! did require 3rd-party open-source drivers. I've had a relatively decent experience with my IDE-based system. Solaris doesn't like older IDE cards that do DMA, so in some cases you may find yourself disabling DMA from the Solaris bootloader. There's plenty of documentation out there, and I can certainly provide a solution if you need it. Any recent IDE controller, though, should have no problem. Especially, if the controller can be found on the HCL, you should be in luck.

Hopefully the hardware support in Solaris should increase once OpenSolaris gets released.

Also, feel free to install Solaris 10 in VMware. I did an install yesterday, with all the default VMware options. Worked great, however, the SoundBlaster card that VMware uses required those 3rd-party drivers to be installed that I mentioned earlier. There's also no tools for it yet, though, the mouse seemed very responsive. There's some fullscreen'ing issues present doing installs also, but that's fixed after the install process is finished.

 

[graphic7]

Here's some screenshots:

http://riemann.solnetworks.net/~dlewis/images/screenshots

Note that in one or two, Solaris 10 now includes gcc, not to mention all of the GNU compiler collection. There's a few assorted screenshots of my VMware install, CDE desktop, and JDS (Sun's modified Gnome, which is very slick).

 

[RoboSapien]

I want to use Linux but when I install it nothing looks like windows at all. I am very comfortable with WinXP but there not single linux that looks exactly like windowXP with all its features.

Secondly Every time I install a new LinuxOs, it looks is complete different than what I had previously used this has happened almost every time with me. Now I am bored with linux, its all talk and no walk. As if there are no standards for linux.

WinXp is also very userfriendly, there are no commanline options that I require. It seems as if BillGates asks users before programming windows features on how they want them and what they want them. Please tell me where to submit my most wanted features that I want in Linux.

I love the hibernation option of WinXP, it has saved lot of my time.

Thanks.

 

[dduardo]

RoboSapien,

1) Does OSX have to be identical to windows to be usable? If you are the type of person that doesn't like change, then stick with windows.

2) During the install you can pick which desktop environment you want. Linux is about choice. Personally, I don't need all the razzle dazzle of a full desktop environment so that is why I use Fluxbox.

Screenshot:
http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/zoom.php?shots/rojaro_fluxbox.jpg

Now if you want a more "windows" like interface go with kde.

Screenshot:

http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.3/snapshot3.png

If you want an apple interface go with gnome or E17.

Screenshot:
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=20865&file1=20865-1.jpg&file2=20865-2.jpg&file3=20865-3.jpg&name=Platisk+%2B+Industrial
http://img182.exs.cx/img182/5922/ebshot4s3nl.jpg

You can even make kde look more apple by changing the style. You can find themes here:

http://www.gnome-look.org/
http://www.kde-look.org/

3) If you don't like to use the command line then get a linux distro like SUSE or Linspire

http://www.novell.com/linux/suse/index.html
http://linspire.com/

With these distro your going to have to pay for the hand holding support.

4) Linux does have hibernation, but if your not using a distro like suse or linspire, you're going to have to configure it yourself, which isn't that hard, but you need to use the command line.

 

[RoboSapien]

dduardo

Thanks for your efforts. That is very useful.

But your 4th answer is very repulsive for a non geek like me.

But yet is there a single linux that is only based on users need and feed back, if not then linux is for the geeks indeed or for the developers who decide what I want. Sorry for my harshness but I think that is the major hurdle in me gettng on linux.

Any way I like Open Office, It is gona give MS run for its office money.

Because I have used linux very less eventhough I am pro enough to install it. I want to know if there is anything revolutionary in Linux That will be useful for me like WinXP Hibernation ?

 

[RoboSapien]

And Yes Last time I installed FedoraCode 3. I was happy to get latest on my P4 but as I installed it I could not play my Mp3 In its player, So I got this Wine or Some Mediplayer for Linux. When I doubleclicked its RPM It did install something But Then nothing happned, It said It needed some files to run software. Now I am already listening Mp3 on WinXP . No what do U have to say about that ? Why can't thing work smoothly on first go ?

 

[faust9]

And Yes Last time I installed FedoraCode 3. I was happy to get latest on my P4 but as I installed it I could not play my Mp3 In its player, So I got this Wine or Some Mediplayer for Linux. When I doubleclicked its RPM It did install something But Then nothing happned, It said It needed some files to run software. Now I am already listening Mp3 on WinXP . No what do U have to say about that ? Why can't thing work smoothly on first go ?

Oh, come on now.

My Gentoo system works the first time almost every time when I install a new piece of software. I highly recommend Suse for its ease of configuration and use. Debian IS easy to use(though the text installation is scary to some).

Now to say you got an MP3 player to work the first time on XP makes XP better is a long stretch. Which MP3 player are you using (are you sure it doesn't include spyware)? Which anti-viruse system resource hog are you running--My linux and Mac OSX boxes don't need anti-virus software. How often do you need to defrag(not really required if you did an NTFS install)? Why Microsoft still ships FAT is beyond me.

XP has more than its fair share of faults--security being the biggest. Oh, I forgot Bill Gates told the IT community Microsoft was going to concentrate on security THIS year (as opposed to the previous five years of saying the same thing with little to show for it).

You can keep you spam-spreading, virus infested, trojan running, call M$ to activate, bloated-inefficient, spyware oozing operating system if you like. Me, I'll run a superior OS (MacOSX) for my daily use and my toy (Gentoo) OS to play with.

 

[RoboSapien]

Now what is this Gentoo

I was talking about linux.

Windows dosent have all such Jargons.

And FAT32 I need it for my Win98 partition. The fact that I still use Win98 over linux should tell something to those nerds what Linux is lacking, Bye.

 

[faust9]

Now what is this Gentoo

I was talking about linux.

Windows dosent have all such Jargons.

And FAT32 I need it for my Win98 partition. The fact that I still use Win98 over linux should tell something to those nerds what Linux is lacking, Bye.

Windows doesn't have Jargon? And cars don't have tires either.

Gentoo is Linux.

http://www.gentoo.org/

And its inconsequential that you "need" FAT32. The fact still remains that it is an awful hodge-podge of a file system.

 

[tarunjot]

I don't think any of those Linuxes or Unix are that much user friendly as is WIndows..
U don't have to be professionaly trained to work on the WIndows operating system,..
its something you just learn without much effort..

Yes the open source may be the uture.. but user friendliness is what accounts more.. i feel

 

[faust9]

I don't think any of those Linuxes or Unix are that much user friendly as is WIndows..
U don't have to be professionaly trained to work on the WIndows operating system,..
its something you just learn without much effort..

Yes the open source may be the uture.. but user friendliness is what accounts more.. i feel

This one of the biggest chunks of FUD floating around about *nix. Install Suse and you'll see it's as user unfriendly as windows(get a mac for usability IMO).

 

[Anttech]

get a mac for usability IMO

bah, with the 1 button mouse, why on Earth do they bundle those with the hardware if they want to be taken seriously, looks over userbility imho

 

[faust9]

bah, with the 1 button mouse, why on Earth do they bundle those with the hardware if they want to be taken seriously, looks over userbility imho

Expose' is my retort. Also if you want more buttons get a logitec; however, 90% of your computing needs are accomplished with one button. As far as one button usability goes give your 70 Y/O mother a computer and try to explain why there are three buttons, when to push each of the buttons, oh don't worry mom you break the middle button it's supposed to roll like that... I went through that, so don't try and tell me more buttons somehow equals usability because I'd beg to differ.

 

[Anttech]

Interesting, I didnt realize that 70 Y/O mothers where the mainstream computer users, if you find a 3 button mouse difficult I think you will find any OS difficult to master... From Fedora core to OSX

 

[Anttech]

Now what is this Gentoo

Gentoo is a distrubution of Linux

wiki

FYI:

The term Linux strictly refers to the Linux kernel

wiki

 

[The Idiot]

I use Windows, Linux (which uses the Fedora Core 2 Desktop), and every once in a while a Mac, with OSX. I can see the good and bad in all of them. I think I'll be getting more into Linux than I am right now, but I won't stop using Windows, either.

It's true that Linux and Mac systems don't really need antivirus programs. People who program viruses want to mess up as many people as they can... They can do that with Windows, because more people have it and because it does have some security problems.

Macs don't have to be used with one-button mice... Any mouse will work. If you're missing the right-click, though, control-click does the same thing.

I'll still use Windows, but I'm not against any other operating system. Linux, in my opinion, is genius. The only problem may be the minor inconsistencies with the many distrobutions. Macs are good, too, because for one, they don't have to worry about the great differences in architecture that Windows-run machines have to. Also, OSX is Unix-based, so it's very reliable.

 

[franznietzsche]

Interesting, I didnt realize that 70 Y/O mothers where the mainstream computer users, if you find a 3 button mouse difficult I think you will find any OS difficult to master... From Fedora core to OSX

How is fedora on the opposite end from OS X?

 

[poolwin2001]

Anyway,the reasons the article mentions for ditching windows are just B.S.
I use Win9x S.E on an ole 800MHz PC and have never had a problem with worms/trojans etc.
You need not dwnld all the patches/upgrades if you are just using it for home purposes.

 

[Anttech]

How is fedora on the opposite end from OS X?

I never sated a scale... I was mearly making a point, which I hope you got

 

[tarunjot]

This one of the biggest chunks of FUD floating around about *nix. Install Suse and you'll see it's as user unfriendly as windows(get a mac for usability IMO).

buddy.. i tried installing linux once, but that was inviting more of problems.. maybe that was coz of my faults.. but i have installed and re-installed windows so many times without a problem..
but what i feel like knowing is that why do we actually need to shift to linux or any open source.. i mean who actually would benefit.

 

[faust9]

buddy.. i tried installing linux once, but that was inviting more of problems.. maybe that was coz of my faults.. but i have installed and re-installed windows so many times without a problem..
but what i feel like knowing is that why do we actually need to shift to linux or any open source.. i mean who actually would benefit.

Again, more FUD. Did you try to install Suse? Installing Linux runns the gammit from the most difficult build from source distros (LFS) the the easy (Suse, Mandrake, Linspire).

Heck, Debian with it's graphical install is as easy as Windows. Answer the questions and it installs.

As for why opensource? Well, this website uses php--you benefit. I dare say the host for this site runs apache on an open OS--you benefit. The latex equation ability of this site is open (well, latex is from what I understand it's use on this site is not in an of itself an open project) you benefit. If you want to minimize your chances of getting a WINDOWS VIRUS download the open project firefox and its mail counterpart thunderbird--you benefit.

If you really don't think there is a benefit to OSS then you should start consulting all of the companies migrating to this form of software development. Oh, and don't forget to tell adobe to lockdown the PDF format while your at it. OSS works and benefits you because a lot of the projects are taken up as labors of love and the partcipants are willing to spend many sleepless nights solving a bug or patching a security hole; whereas windows is retisent to even admit it has these hols (Gartner just critiqued MS for spending too much time telling people flaws are not in fact flaws instead of admitting to these security holes and telling people how to avoid them).

Hey, if you want to keep your virus/trojan box by all means feel free. My Mac runs fine w/o a virus detector and so does my Gentoo box(both are open source: the Mac kernel and all of the software on my Gentoo box).

 

[Dr-NiKoN]

bah, with the 1 button mouse, why on Earth do they bundle those with the hardware if they want to be taken seriously

Exactly how is the 1-button mouse not serious and a 2-button mouse is?

Are you saying that pressing down ctrl when you click is hard? Isn't it serious enough for you?

The serious, professional users will 90% of the time use keyboard-shortcuts which are much faster than right-click -> menu -> click.

And, if it really is that big of a problem get a 15-button mouse, install USBOverdrive and configure your mouse-buttons to write mathematical theorems for you.

The "lol 1 butan"-argument has to be the weakest argument I've ever heard against Macs.

 

[faust9]

buddy.. i tried installing linux once, but that was inviting more of problems.. maybe that was coz of my faults.. but i have installed and re-installed windows so many times without a problem..
but what i feel like knowing is that why do we actually need to shift to linux or any open source.. i mean who actually would benefit.

Moreover, how much easier do you wnat linux installation to be? http://www.mepis.org/book/view/7

There are a lot of linux distros which are liveCD(boot and run OS from CD in about 5 minutes) which allow the OS to install AFTER you boot to an operating OS. Imagine booting up, selecting install, going online, reading e-mail, writing a technical document playing a game or whatever you want to do in 5 minutes(not counting the time to burn the ISO).

 

[faust9]

Interesting, I didnt realize that 70 Y/O mothers where the mainstream computer users, if you find a 3 button mouse difficult I think you will find any OS difficult to master... From Fedora core to OSX

Again, you have not shown how more buttons equals more usability. More buttons=more confusion for neophytes. 90% of my computer needs are met with one button. the other 10% I can accomplish by pressing the apple or option or ctrl keys, or simply clicking on an appropriate icon using the one button.

I'll give you more buttons helps in professional applications like autocad or even adobe apps but professionals usually purchase the correct hardware tools to accompany their software ie wacom tablets(why don't PC's come with these they are useful).

I have yet to be slowed down because of my 1 button (I do have a 6x8 intiuos for high end apps) mouse. My average computer needs are more than met with the 1 button mouse--e-mail, net, word processing, matlab/maple, etc.

 

[Anttech]

More buttons=more confusion for neophytes. 90% of my computer needs are met with one button

Interesting, funny but interesting... Where did you pluck 90% from?

Exactly how is the 1-button mouse not serious and a 2-button mouse is?

just my opinion... I would prefer more useability over the looks of my hardware...

Anyway sorry if I offened anyone, I just don't like Macs, I have used them many times, and I always end up just doing almost everything I have to via the shell on OSx

 

[Asphyxi8]

Because I play computer games. And I hate the Mac OS.

 

[tarunjot]

Again, more FUD. Did you try to install Suse? Installing Linux runns the gammit from the most difficult build from source distros (LFS) the the easy (Suse, Mandrake, Linspire).

Heck, Debian with it's graphical install is as easy as Windows. Answer the questions and it installs.

As for why opensource? Well, this website uses php--you benefit. I dare say the host for this site runs apache on an open OS--you benefit. The latex equation ability of this site is open (well, latex is from what I understand it's use on this site is not in an of itself an open project) you benefit. If you want to minimize your chances of getting a WINDOWS VIRUS download the open project firefox and its mail counterpart thunderbird--you benefit.

If you really don't think there is a benefit to OSS then you should start consulting all of the companies migrating to this form of software development. Oh, and don't forget to tell adobe to lockdown the PDF format while your at it. OSS works and benefits you because a lot of the projects are taken up as labors of love and the partcipants are willing to spend many sleepless nights solving a bug or patching a security hole; whereas windows is retisent to even admit it has these hols (Gartner just critiqued MS for spending too much time telling people flaws are not in fact flaws instead of admitting to these security holes and telling people how to avoid them).

Hey, if you want to keep your virus/trojan box by all means feel free. My Mac runs fine w/o a virus detector and so does my Gentoo box(both are open source: the Mac kernel and all of the software on my Gentoo box).

Thanx for clarifying all my doubts dear.. Real enlightened in this regards now!