Why Does Sound Vary with Humidity, Not Pressure?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between sound propagation and environmental factors, specifically humidity and pressure. Participants explore how these factors influence the speed of sound in gases, with a focus on the underlying physical principles and properties of the medium through which sound travels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why sound does not depend on pressure while it does on humidity, suggesting a need for clarification on the nature of sound as a pressure wave.
  • One participant explains that sound is the propagation of waves through a medium and that humidity affects sound propagation due to the presence of water vapor, which alters properties like density and heat transfer.
  • Another participant asserts that humid air is less dense than dry air because water molecules are lighter than oxygen and nitrogen, leading to a higher speed of sound in humid conditions.
  • There is a claim that the speed of sound is related inversely to density, which is challenged by another participant who states that speed is related to the stiffness of the material.
  • A participant elaborates on the factors affecting the speed of sound in different states of matter, emphasizing the importance of compressibility and density in gases, and how temperature plays a crucial role in determining sound speed.
  • It is noted that in non-ideal gases, there may be a slight dependence of sound velocity on gas pressure, but this is not the case for ideal gases at constant temperature.
  • Humidity is mentioned to have a measurable effect on sound speed due to the mixing of lighter water molecules with air, which is described as a simple mixing effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between sound speed, density, and pressure, with some asserting that pressure has no effect on sound speed in ideal gases, while others challenge this notion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various physical principles, such as compressibility, density, and molecular weight, but there are unresolved assumptions about the definitions and implications of these concepts in the context of sound propagation.

Ghassan99
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Why doesn't Sound depend on pressure while depends on Humidity ?
 
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Could you re-phrase the question please? I can't understand what you want to know. Are you referring to speed?
 
Ghassan99 said:
Why doesn't Sound depend on pressure while depends on Humidity ?

Sound IS pressure
 
DragonPetter said:
Sound IS pressure

Variation in pressure!
 
Sound is the propagation of waves through a medium. In air this is essentially a fluctuation in pressure (very similar to how jumping into a pool will create different waves depending on the size of the jumper). Humidity affects sound propagation for several reasons, the most intuitive being that a humid body of air now contains an appreciable amount of water. While I can't say I know a great deal about this aspect of fluids, mixing the air with water will change the speed of sound, heat transfer properties, maybe viscosity and density.
 
Aero51 said:
Sound is the propagation of waves through a medium. In air this is essentially a fluctuation in pressure (very similar to how jumping into a pool will create different waves depending on the size of the jumper). Humidity affects sound propagation for several reasons, the most intuitive being that a humid body of air now contains an appreciable amount of water. While I can't say I know a great deal about this aspect of fluids, mixing the air with water will change the speed of sound, heat transfer properties, maybe viscosity and density.

Significantly and, perhaps, surprisingly, humid air is less dense than dry air. How can that be? It's because the molecules of water H2O are less massive than molecules of O2 and N2. Speed of sound is related inversely to density so the speed is higher in humid air.
 
Speed of sound is related inversely to density
That's a misconception. Speed of sound is related to stiffness of the material.
 
But, in a gas, How do you define stiffness?
 
Dependence on the properties of the medium

The speed of sound is variable and depends on the properties of the substance through of which the wave is travelling. In solids, the speed of longitudinal waves depend on the stiffness to tensile stress, and the density of the medium. In fluids, the medium's compressibility and density are the important factors.

In gases, compressibility and density are related, making other compositional effects and properties important, such as temperature and molecular composition. In low molecular weight gases, such as helium, sound propagates faster compared to heavier gases, such as xenon (for monatomic gases the speed of sound is about 75% of the mean speed that molecules move in the gas). For a given ideal gas the sound speed depends only on its temperature. At a constant temperature, the ideal gas pressure has no effect on the speed of sound, because pressure and density (also proportional to pressure) have equal but opposite effects on the speed of sound, and the two contributions cancel out exactly. In a similar way, compression waves in solids depend both on compressibility and density—just as in liquids—but in gases the density contributes to the compressibility in such a way that some part of each attribute factors out, leaving only a dependence on temperature, molecular weight, and heat capacity (see derivations below). Thus, for a single given gas (where molecular weight does not change) and over a small temperature range (where heat capacity is relatively constant), the speed of sound becomes dependent on only the temperature of the gas.

In non-ideal gases, such as a van der Waals gas, the proportionality is not exact, and there is a slight dependence of sound velocity on the gas pressure.

Humidity has a small but measurable effect on sound speed (causing it to increase by about 0.1%-0.6%), because oxygen and nitrogen molecules of the air are replaced by lighter molecules of water. This is a simple mixing effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
 

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