Why does the given diagram not violate Gauss's law of magnetism?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding why a specific diagram does not violate Gauss's law of magnetism, particularly in the context of magnetic field lines and their behavior around a closed surface. The subject area is magnetism and electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions the implications of having B-field lines exiting a closed surface without any entering, reflecting on a previous lecture about the nature of magnets. Some participants discuss the composition of magnets and the concept of magnetic dipoles, while others explore the implications of cutting a magnet and the microscopic properties affecting the magnetic field.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the concepts, with some providing insights into the nature of magnetic fields and the behavior of magnetic dipoles. There is a recognition of the complexity of the topic, and while some understanding is emerging, there is no explicit consensus on the interpretation of the diagram in relation to Gauss's law.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the original poster's uncertainty regarding the lecture content and the textbook, indicating potential gaps in foundational knowledge. The discussion also touches on the distinction between macroscopic and microscopic properties of magnets, suggesting that assumptions about the uniformity of magnetic fields may be under scrutiny.

phosgene
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Homework Statement



I'm basically just wondering why the given diagram wouldn't violate Gauss's law of magnetism...there are two B-field lines exiting, but none entering the red box. So the net flux isn't zero. I vaguely remember the lecturer addressing this when we were studying the topic, but this was wwaaay back in first semester and I've forgotten. And I can't find the answer in the textbook.

gaussesmagnetism.png


Homework Equations



[itex]\oint{B \bullet dS}= 0[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution



EDIT: I DO remember a bit now, he said that the magnet is actually composed of lots of little N-S parts, but then what if the red box slices through the middle of one of those?
 
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phosgene said:
wondering why the given diagram wouldn't violate Gauss's law of magnetism...there are two B-field lines exiting, but none entering the red box.
EDIT: I DO remember a bit now, he said that the magnet is actually composed of lots of little N-S parts, but then what if the red box slices through the middle of one of those?

Yes, there is flux entering on the left side of the box from the magnet. Connect the flux lines from S through the magnet to the N. Those lines you have drawn are loops that do not simply terminate on the magnet poles.
EDIT: I DO remember a bit now, he said that the magnet is actually composed of lots of little N-S parts, but then what if the red box slices through the middle of one of those?

The magnetism in permanent magnets is caused by the movement of some electrons around individual atoms.

You should recall that a loop of current generates a magnetic field (it was likely called a magnetic dipole). An electron orbiting its nucleus also constitutes a loop of current, as does an electron spinning on its own axis. Normally electrons are paired in orbits so their net magnetic contribution is zero (one generates NS and the other SN so they cancel) but the orbitals of some materials are modified when atoms come close together (like in a solid) so that they are no longer paired and that is what leads to some materials being magnetic.

Each atom with an orbiting electron generating a magnetic field can be considered a magnetic dipole with an N and S and that is why it is said a permanent magnet can be thought of as having many tiny N/S poles. It's also why you can never cut a permanent magnet in half and isolate the S from the N.

A distinction between macroscopic and microscopic properties also has to be made. In the sort of diagram above, we are looking at the macroscopic properties of the magnetic field, which averages the effects of all the individual atoms of a material. If you zoom into the atomic scale, irregularities in the lattice (the way atoms are bonded to each other; there can be an atom missing here, an extra one there; different areas of the molten material may have crystallized separately so where individuals islands of crystals meet is not a regular lattice bond, etc) can cause large local fluctuations in the magnetic field. Don't worry about that though, just worry about the macroscopic scale because that's what we're mainly interested in.
 
Last edited:
So, if I've understood correctly, magnets essentially boil down to collections of something like this:

magnetism2-1.png


where the red represents the movement of the electron and the black lines are B-field lines. If that is the case, I think I can see why the net flux through a closed surface is always 0. Thanks :)
 
You've got it!
There are NO magnetic monopoles except in Larry Niven science fiction stories.
 

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