- #1
Tech2025
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Probably an unanswered question , just wondering what people have to say.
I'm sure the brilliant minds of this forum can explain what is known this far. I believe it has to do with entropy, where everything goes from order to disorder, at the same time our perception of time is skewed. Past, present, and future all existing at once. Glad you asked also interested in the opinions on this forum.
You too should read the Wikipedia article.
As long as time moves in the same direction for everything, it does not matter whether that direction is labelled "forward" or "backward". Ripples from a rock dropped in a pond will appear to move outward either way.Probably an unanswered question , just wondering what people have to say.
Don't drag us into the hole also. It appears that you hopped all over on the Internet, sometimes to sources unacceptable on PF. Please give a link to every assertion that you make. (If this was not a B level thread, even Wikipedia is not acceptable.)Down the rabbit hole I go.
Ahh I see, I see. Good to know. Do not want to get banned, relatively new here.Don't drag us into the hole also. It appears that you hopped all over on the Internet, sometimes to sources unacceptable on PF. Please give a link to every assertion that you make. (If this was not a B level thread, even Wikipedia is not acceptable.)
The OP asked about the direction of time. not "what is time". We have had many threads about "what is time" here on PF. They tend to get philosophical and get shut down quickly, so stay away from that.
What about an exploding rocket? Time reversal there is obviously connected with entropy ... and the two directions are distinguished.As long as time moves in the same direction for everything, it does not matter whether that direction is labelled "forward" or "backward". Ripples from a rock dropped in a pond will appear to move outward either way.
If the direction of low entropy is in the direction that somebody has chosen to label as "future" then time will proceed in "reverse". The two directions are only distinguished by the direction in which low entropy is located.What about an exploding rocket? Time reversal there is obviously connected with entropy ... and the two directions are distinguished.
ThenIf the direction of low entropy is in the direction that somebody has chosen to label as "future" then time will proceed in "reverse". The two directions are only distinguished by the direction in which low entropy is located.
is not trueRipples from a rock dropped in a pond will appear to move outward either way.
If a rock spontaneously rises from a pond in the middle of a circle of converging ripples, the ripples will appear to move outward because the direction of low entropy is in the direction that you have chosen to call "future".Then
is not true
The smaller the circles the lower the entropy ... thus more into the "future", thus inwards. q.e.dIf a rock spontaneously rises from a pond in the middle of a circle of converging ripples, the ripples will appear to move outward because the direction of low entropy is in the direction that you have chosen to call "future".
So your claim is that ripples in ponds always converge inwards over time? That certainly does not match my experience.The smaller the circles the lower the entropy ... thus more into the future, thus inwards. q.e.d
No, only if you choose the false direction, as you suggested.So your claim is that ripples in ponds always converge inwards over time? That certainly does not match my experience.
So, Nature keeps incrementing Her knowledge, using the Spacetime as the organizer to keep it in order.
I guess you can restate it by asking if there is one preferred well-defined direction [of time]I also think this question is ill-defined. What does it mean for time to "run backward"? What experiment could you conduct that would show this? You would quickly find yourself asking the question "backward with respect to what?" Presumably some universal clock that measures absolute time...
In the micro-world there may be time-reversal symmetry (equations invariant under the time-reversal symmetry operator/transformation), but not in Thermodynamics or Statistical Physics. You can use the direction of increasing Entropy (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) to figure out the direction of time ...You can ask all sorts of ill-defined things. What experiment could you conduct that would show this?
What experiment? You seem to be the experimentalist ... you figure it outStavros, you are ignoring what I am writing.
Stavros, you are ignoring what I am writing.
What I mean is that you haven't proven that such an experiment is not possible or it doesn't exist, nor it's impossible that it doesn't, per se or a priori, or even purely scientifically, unless/until that is proven. I offered you a starting point:What experiment? You seem to be the experimentalist ... you figure it out
Rather you responded with a totally ambigious statement! I had to guess what you meant! [Then you went ahead and reported me!? ...]In the micro-world there may be time-reversal symmetry (equations invariant under the time-reversal symmetry operator/transformation), but not in Thermodynamics or Statistical Physics. You can use the direction of increasing Entropy (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) to figure out the direction of time ...
1. Nor you have proven or can prove your argument either! ...1. It is not my job to come up with a counter-example to my own argument.
2. All you have succeeded in convincing me is that further discussion is a waste of time.
(Proven wrong:)As long as time moves in the same direction for everything, it does not matter whether that direction is labelled "forward" or "backward". Ripples from a rock dropped in a pond will appear to move outward either way.
The smaller the circles the lower the entropy ... thus more into the "future", thus inwards. q.e.d
No, only if you choose the false direction, as you suggested.
"Time reversal" is a tricky thing! ...
[In Particle Physics it may be a symmetry, but not in everyday life ...]
As long as time moves in the same direction for everything, it does not matter whether that direction is labelled "forward" or "backward". Ripples from a rock dropped in a pond will appear to move outward either way.
Nope. The statement is correct. Though it seems that you had not actually agreed with it.(Proven wrong:)
You have to review carefully the thread too. We had agreed on it:Nope. The statement is correct. Though it seems that you had not actually agreed with it.
(Thus it violates the entropy law in that case [of reversed time]. Thus we can use that argument to pin-point the increasing entropy direction as the correct direction of time ...)The smaller the circles the lower the entropy ... thus more into the "future", thus inwards. q.e.d
Edit: I see now the scare quotes around "future" and agree with what you wrote.
Right. We had an agreement. But then you claimed disagreement. Please do not do that.You have to review carefully the thread too. We had agreed on it:
(Thus it violates the entropy law in that case [of reversed time]. Thus we can use that argument to pin-point the increasing entropy direction as the correct direction of time ...)
You had agreed on it:
You did that not meRight. We had an agreement. But then you claimed disagreement. Please do not do that.
I am not the one who wrote "proven wrong".You did that not me
Yes, for your original statement, which later on I assume you realized its falsity: in reversed time, circles go inward (to a decreasing and not increasing entropy), while you said always outwards ... . Simple.I am not the one who wrote "proven wrong".
The original statement was and is correct.Yes, for your original statement, which later on I assume you realized its falsity: in reversed time, circles go inward (to a decreasing and not increasing entropy), while you said always outwards ... . Simple.
Is incorrect, if you switch "past" and "future". Just make yourself a simple diagram and think carefully.Time still "flows" from the direction of low entropy to high entropy.