Why is E=mc² Essential in Understanding Energy and Mass?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter thykingdombutt
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of the equation E=mc² in understanding the relationship between energy and mass. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical reasoning, and conceptual clarifications related to the formula, as well as its derivation and the nature of energy itself.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about why E=mc² includes the square of the speed of light, questioning if E=mc would suffice.
  • Others argue that not everything travels at the speed of light, with some clarifying that proper velocity's magnitude is c only under specific conditions.
  • A participant mentions that Einstein's derivation of E=mc² was based on a thought experiment and involves discrepancies in mass measurements across different inertial frames.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of energy, with some noting that it varies by type (kinetic, potential, etc.) and questioning how this relates to Einstein's use of the term.
  • One participant suggests that the speed of light is squared due to the nature of momentum, indicating that energy increases quadratically with velocity.
  • Another participant points out the importance of dimensional analysis in understanding the relationship between mass, energy, and the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are multiple competing views regarding the interpretation of E=mc², the nature of energy, and the implications of velocity in the context of mass and energy.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect misunderstandings about physical concepts, such as the nature of velocity in relation to mass and energy. There are also unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of energy types.

thykingdombutt
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I know E=mc2 essentially means energy = mass. One might think why not just say E = m?

But I also know that: Every object travels through space and time at the speed of light.

So now one might think why not just E=mc? That's essentially where I'm stuck at now. I'm not sure why it's necessary to 2 the c.

I know that light waves only travel at right angles, but I don't know if that has any relevance to the formula.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Look at the units and tell me what happens with E=mc.
 
thykingdombutt said:
I know E=mc2 essentially means energy = mass. One might think why not just say E = m?

But I also know that: Every object travels through space and time at the speed of light.
That's nowhere close to true. For example, the planets in the solar system are moving much slower than that.
thykingdombutt said:
So now one might think why not just E=mc? That's essentially where I'm stuck at now. I'm not sure why it's necessary to 2 the c.

I know that light waves only travel at right angles
Right angles to what? You might be thinking about the magnetic and electric fields.
thykingdombutt said:
, but I don't know if that has any relevance to the formula.
 
Common misconception: Everything does not necessarily travel at the speed of light. Everything's proper velocity's magnitude is c (under only the influence of gravity? I think).

E=mc^2 wasn't a guess. It was derived by a thought experiment of Einstein's and described in his paper "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend upon its Energy Content." There he found that with a discrepancy between the measurements of mass between multiple inertial reference frames is that the measured difference is E/c^2. In other words m=E/c^2 or E=mc^2.
 
Another thought I had that might help me understand this, what does Einstein mean by "energy"? Energy is defined different based on type (kinetic, potential, mechanical, electric, etcetera). I read his paper but he refers to it mostly in general.

TheEtherWind said:
Common misconception: Everything does not necessarily travel at the speed of light. Everything's proper velocity's magnitude is c (under only the influence of gravity? I think).

I see, so would it be more accurate to say: Every object travels through space and time with the velocity's magnitude of light?
 
thykingdombutt said:
Another thought I had that might help me understand this, what does Einstein mean by "energy"? Energy is defined different based on type (kinetic, potential, mechanical, electric, etcetera). I read his paper but he refers to it mostly in general.
Because one form of energy can be transformed into another and the total amount of energy is conserved, the specific form of energy doesn't make much difference. Indeed, it's often best to think of rest mass as just another form of energy - this thread may be helpful: www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=720053

I see, so would it be more accurate to say: Every object travels through space and time with the velocity's magnitude of light?
It is true that the magnitude of the four-velocity four-vector is always ##c##, but unless you are very clear on the underlying math, it's easy to be misled if you think of this as "traveling".
 
thykingdombutt said:
I see, so would it be more accurate to say: Every object travels through space and time with the velocity's magnitude of light?

Particles do not travel in space-time. All we're doing is normalizing the 4-velocity of time-like particles by using proper time as the worldline parameter.
 
DaleSpam said:
Look at the units and tell me what happens with E=mc.
I suspect that the thread starter knows nothing about physical units. Which means that any attempt to teach him some special relativity will be waste of time.
 
Sorry for taking so long getting back to this thread. I wanted to do a lot more research and come back with more confidence. I'll discuss my current thoughts now.

I think the reason mass is multiplied by the speed of light (as opposed to the speed of sound or some other variable) is because light in a vacuum is constant and so can give you precise reliable numbers to work with.

I think the reason the speed of light is squared has to do with the nature of momentum: To move a given object twice as fast for example, wouldn't take twice the energy/work but rather 4 times, thrice as fast 9 times, etcetera.
 
  • #10
thykingdombutt said:
Sorry for taking so long getting back to this thread. I wanted to do a lot more research and come back with more confidence. I'll discuss my current thoughts now.

I think the reason mass is multiplied by the speed of light (as opposed to the speed of sound or some other variable) is because light in a vacuum is constant and so can give you precise reliable numbers to work with.

I think the reason the speed of light is squared has to do with the nature of momentum: To move a given object twice as fast for example, wouldn't take twice the energy/work but rather 4 times, thrice as fast 9 times, etcetera.

You seem to be on the right track when you note that energy is quadratic in velocity and not linear. But there's another very useful way of approaching this problem that you seem to be missing.

See, for instance dimensional analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis. Then try visiting Google calculator, and typing in the expression

kg * (meter per second)^2 =
 
  • #11
Isnt it because the energy released is equivalent to e=mc^2
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K