Why is Entropy a concave function of internal energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding why entropy is considered a concave function of internal energy from a microscopic perspective. Participants explore the implications of energy distribution among particles and the resulting microstates, touching on concepts from thermodynamics and statistical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the concavity of the entropy function, suggesting that adding energy to a system should increase the number of microstates in a linear fashion.
  • Another participant challenges the initial calculation of microstates, asking for clarification on the derivation of terms used in the expression for microstates.
  • A subsequent reply corrects the earlier expression for microstates, suggesting that the term should be divided by 2 when considering indistinguishable particles.
  • The original poster expresses uncertainty about whether this correction affects the overall behavior of the relationship between energy and microstates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the corrections made to the microstate calculations, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of the relationship between entropy and internal energy.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about particle distinguishability and the mathematical treatment of microstates, which may affect the conclusions drawn about entropy's concavity.

Wentu
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Hello

I may well be all wrong about this but I am trying to understand from a microscopic point of view why Entropy is a concave function of internal energy. I found this in the following .pdf:

http://physics.technion.ac.il/ckfinder/userfiles/files/avron/thermodynamics_potentials.pdf

I started from this wikipedia article and i understand why, if the particles composing the system have a limited number of available energy levels, then S(E) first increases and then decreases.

But saying that S(E) is concave should mean:
- when the temperature is T1, if i give a dE to the system its entropy increases of dS1
- when the tempereture is T2>T1, if I give the same dE to the system, its Entropy increases only of dS2 < dS1

I cannot see this with single particles.
If I have N particles in their lowest energy state there is only one microstate: all the particles are still.
If I give to this system the tiniest possible amount of energy, it will be taken by just one of the particle, so the possible microstates are N.
If I add another dE, the possible microstates should be N + N(N-1) = N^2 ... that is or one particle gets both dE or two different particles get it. Every time I add a dE I should increase the power of N.
Now, if the entropy is somehow proportional to the logarithm of the number of microstates, I should get S proportional to K ln(N^E), that is, something that is proportianl to E... taht is, no concavity

I am sure I am getting all this wrong... could you please help me understand this?

Thank You

Wentu
 
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Wentu said:
If I add another dE, the possible microstates should be N + N(N-1) = N^2 .

Where do you get the first N on the left hand side from?
 
The first N is for a single particle having 2*dE energy and all other particles ground energy
 
Ah, ok. Shouldn't the second term should rather read N(N-1)/2?
 
You are right... I was considering distinguishble particles but this isn't enough, so yes, the term should be divided by 2. I wonder if this is enough to change the behaviour from linear to less-than-linear... I think the number of microstates still increases as a power with the increasing of E... but again, i could be all wrong

W.
 

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