Why is H burning not a B+ decay

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    Cno cycle Decay
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reasons why hydrogen burning in the context of the CNO cycle is not classified as beta-plus (B+) decay. Participants explore the mechanisms of hydrogen burning, the role of beta decay in the CNO cycle, and the conditions under which these processes occur.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the classification of hydrogen burning as B+ decay and seek clarification on the reasoning behind this distinction.
  • Others mention that there are two beta-plus decays involved in the CNO cycles, suggesting a complexity in the relationship between hydrogen burning and B+ decay.
  • A participant notes that the limiting reaction in the CNO-I cycle is the proton capture on nitrogen-14, implying that this process is crucial to understanding hydrogen burning.
  • One participant discusses the temperature dependence of the CNO cycle, stating that at low temperatures, positron decay is not a limiting factor, while at high temperatures, it can become significant.
  • Terminology is raised as a point of contention, with a participant suggesting that "B+" is an unusual term for beta decay.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of hydrogen burning and its relation to B+ decay, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the matter.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the understanding of the CNO cycle and hydrogen burning may depend on specific conditions such as temperature and density, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying nuclear physics, stellar processes, or the CNO cycle, particularly in understanding the nuances of hydrogen burning and beta decay classifications.

The forgetful one
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TL;DR
Hydrogen Burning in CNO cycle
Hello physics gurus out there.
Can someone please point me in the correct direction.
I am looking for reasons why Hydrogen burning is NOT considered to be B+ decay in the standard CNO cycle?

Thanks
The forgetful one
 
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The forgetful one said:
Hydrogen burning is NOT considered to be B+ decay
Says who ?
 
There are two beta+ decays as part of the CNO cycles.
 
Apologies folks, I am just trying to learn this stuff.
The question I have is. If you consider the normal CNO cycle, why is H burning using this route not considered to be B+ decay limited.
 
Limited is rather a key word in your question :smile: .
I take it you googled the CNO link ? It says
wiki said:
The limiting (slowest) reaction in the CNO-I cycle is the proton capture on ##\mathstrut ^{14}_{\ 7}\!N ##
 
This is a totally new area for me, I am doing it to try and stop my grey matter from going all mushy.
I think I should just let it go and do flower arranging instead. :-)
 
Just so you know: it's totally new for me too :oldeyes: ( but my background may be different)

However, I do like new areas of skills and knowledge. Not so sure about flower arranging, though ...
 
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It is not limited at low temperature, like star cores.
The reason is that positron decay is one particle process that happens at a speed independent on temperature or density, and in case of the CNO cycle nuclei (N-13 and O-15) in a few minutes. Whereas at those low temperatures the proton captures happen once in millions of years.
At high temperatures, like in exploding novae where accumulated protium explodes, CNO cycle is sped up until the proton capture can happen in minutes, and then positron decay does become a limiting step. This allows the branches of hot CNO cycle, like N-13 captures a second proton before decay and goes through O-14.
 
  • #10
Terminology issue. B+ is an unusual term for beta decay.
 

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