Why is Physics So Hard? Advice to Improve

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The discussion revolves around a high school student struggling with physics after previously excelling academically. Despite a strong GPA and high class ranking, the student finds physics challenging, particularly with concepts like projectile motion and vector components. Concerns about maintaining a GPA for scholarship eligibility are prominent. Participants suggest various strategies for improvement, emphasizing the importance of understanding the material rather than relying solely on memorization. They recommend studying practice problems, seeking help from classmates or teachers, and learning concepts ahead of class to reinforce understanding. The conversation also touches on grade inflation, with some suggesting that the student's previous courses may have been less rigorous, leading to difficulties in adapting to the higher demands of physics. The student expresses frustration with test performance, attributing mistakes to panic and time management issues. Overall, the thread highlights the challenges of transitioning to more complex subjects and the need for effective study techniques in physics.
  • #51
Not to be mean or anything but Math or physics or other sciences aren't for everyone. Not everybody can be doctors, engineers, physicists, etc... Society needs some people doing this and other that... Maybe it's not for you?
 
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  • #52
 
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  • #53
Well, physics is "easy," but the math required to do some physics problems is quite hard. In other words, solving particular problems involves solving very complicated mathematical equations.
 
  • #54
Chunkysalsa said:
Are you in high school or college? All that time between posts and you guys are only on work/energy, seems kinda slow. Which is normal for high school ^_^.


I'm taking physics right now as well (college), I don't find it hard in the sense that is difficult to grasp. It's just very, very time consuming. I currently have a B in lecture and an A in lab and the class avg on tests is around the low 50s (and dropping with every tests). I can't wait till drop date passes next week, there's going to be like 10 people max. Too bad my two friends won't finish with me v_v.

We just tested on rotational physics with fluid dynamics being next.

high school, and i think we are going REALLY fast. We are already threw 200 pages in the book and its not like I just have 1 subject to worry about. I have 3 tests tomorrow, ap history, pre-calc, and physics
 
  • #55
Shackleford said:
Well, physics is "easy," but the math required to do some physics problems is quite hard. In other words, solving particular problems involves solving very complicated mathematical equations.
When doing physics problems the maths is physics, if you don't understand that maths then you don't understand the physics.
 
  • #56
Klockan3 said:
When doing physics problems the maths is physics, if you don't understand that maths then you don't understand the physics.

Mathematics is entirely arbitrary. It does not dictate physical phenomena. However, it's used by physicists as a language to describe physical phenomena quantitatively very precisely. Someone can understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but not be able to express it quantitatively. That's my distinction - a very fine one, I know.
 
  • #57
NeedsHelp1212 said:
I am not sure where to post this thread but i guess here. So not to brag but I have gotten straight A's most of my entire life, I found school pretty easy aside from some spots (like Spanish). My GPA is very high and I am ranked in the top 2 percent of my class. So once I completed spanish 3 i felt i wanted to drop it and place an extra science in. So i took physics thinking it would be easy. Well it's far from that, i have an 88 half way through the marking period and probably just failed the quiz today bringing my grade to like an 83-85. I don't know why the subject seems so hard. The problem is I have a lab due Wed and I am not sure what to write. I have to try to get a B+ this marking period so my GPA does not drop. Does anyone have any advice on how to do good in physics? Right now we are going over projectile motion at an angle. One dimensional motion was pretty easy, second dimensional motion was easy until we got to the point where you had to split the vectors up into components, and now we are starting this. So pretty much my question is, how can i improve in physics?

Based on how you characterize the class, it seems to be your first physics class. I can guarantee you with full honesty that if you stick it out, the material will "click" and your grades will improve. It goes without saying that, at least in my experience, that an introductory physics course is meant to seem extremely more difficult than it has to (mainly to weed out the non-science minded students, in my opinion.) When I took my first physics course last year (it seems to be similar to yours), I was getting low 80's; the class average for our first kinematics test was a 45%. Before mid-terms came around, I doubt there were more than one or two students who got less than 90% on every homework assignment, test, and lab. It is true, they are very intelligent - but even those just taking the class to get it out of the way were doing well at some point. If you persist and get rid of your previous conviction - the mindset that you're going to get high 90's in every class - you'll certainly improve.
 
  • #58
Shackleford said:
Mathematics is entirely arbitrary. It does not dictate physical phenomena. However, it's used by physicists as a language to describe physical phenomena quantitatively very precisely. Someone can understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but not be able to express it quantitatively. That's my distinction - a very fine one, I know.

So, F=ma (a straight line provided that mass is constant) is more difficult to "understand" than it's implications. That's rich, because I'm not even sure what the implications of such a statement is (F=ma), but I (and basically any 14 year old) could solve for any variable 7 days from Sunday.
 
  • #59
General_Sax said:
So, F=ma (a straight line provided that mass is constant) is more difficult to "understand" than it's implications. That's rich, because I'm not even sure what the implications of such a statement is (F=ma), but I (and basically any 14 year old) could solve for any variable 7 days from Sunday.

Exactly, I have no problem solving for a variable. Too bad the problems don't simply give you the numbers needed to plug into the equation.
 
  • #60
theJorge551 said:
Based on how you characterize the class, it seems to be your first physics class. I can guarantee you with full honesty that if you stick it out, the material will "click" and your grades will improve. It goes without saying that, at least in my experience, that an introductory physics course is meant to seem extremely more difficult than it has to (mainly to weed out the non-science minded students, in my opinion.) When I took my first physics course last year (it seems to be similar to yours), I was getting low 80's; the class average for our first kinematics test was a 45%. Before mid-terms came around, I doubt there were more than one or two students who got less than 90% on every homework assignment, test, and lab. It is true, they are very intelligent - but even those just taking the class to get it out of the way were doing well at some point. If you persist and get rid of your previous conviction - the mindset that you're going to get high 90's in every class - you'll certainly improve.

thanks for the confidence. I definitely need it ( and I do better when I have confidence)
 
  • #61
NeedsHelp1212 said:
Exactly, I have no problem solving for a variable. Too bad the problems don't simply give you the numbers needed to plug into the equation.

Good. They can't make it too easy.
 
  • #62
NeedsHelp1212 said:
thanks for the confidence. I definitely need it ( and I do better when I have confidence)

We all do, man. :smile: Glad to know I could help, and keep us posted!
 
  • #63
Shackleford said:
Mathematics is entirely arbitrary.
No it is not, it was constructed to fit the laws of this world.
Shackleford said:
It does not dictate physical phenomena.
No, but it was created in such a way that it is optimal for expressing physical phenomena and it is our only way to do so.
Shackleford said:
Someone can understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but not be able to express it quantitatively. That's my distinction - a very fine one, I know.
Then I'd say that he most likely don't understand it qualitatively, he just think that they does. People have so many erroneous beliefs about things like physics, it takes a really long time to hammer them out and it is impossible to do that without the maths, words like acceleration and velocity have different meaning to different persons till you define it mathematically etc. I'd say that it is really rare for people to understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but it is really common to be able to express it quantitatively. People in general are a lot better at maths than they are at physics.

Also, no your view is far from delicate, I have the same opinion but got to the reverse conclusion. When learning the physics you either already know the maths or you do learn the maths implicitly in the process. If you take a non calculus based physics course you should after that understand enough concepts from calculus that you could take your first calculus course in a week or else you didn't understand the physics. Calculus is trivial once you understand concepts like F=ma qualitatively.
 
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  • #64
Klockan3 said:
No it is not, it was constructed to fit the laws of this world.

No, but it was created in such a way that it is optimal for expressing physical phenomena and it is our only way to do so.

Then I'd say that he most likely don't understand it qualitatively, he just think that they does. People have so many erroneous beliefs about things like physics, it takes a really long time to hammer them out and it is impossible to do that without the maths, words like acceleration and velocity have different meaning to different persons till you define it mathematically etc. I'd say that it is really rare for people to understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but it is really common to be able to express it quantitatively. People in general are a lot better at maths than they are at physics.

Also, no your view is far from delicate, I have the same opinion but got to the reverse conclusion.

Definitely agree on this comment.

One of the things mathematics is good at is if used correctly, it provides a good way to state the structure and behavior of particular things which include physical systems.

Because of this non-ambiguity it is usually a good way to really get all people to have a standardized interpretation and understanding of the so called physical systems. Not only that, because of the non-ambiguity it allows anyone to compare the reality of the system against the language of the theory and straight away anyone can tell if its outright wrong (whether in general or by a single anomaly) or whether it still stands against the specific tested situation.

On why physics is hard, one thing I have to add is to first think about the history of physics (this can very well apply to any science humankind has endeavored in building).

Our understanding of physics has come about by a very large number of people who are very smart and very dedicated through curious investigation to find out about their world. I think everyone has at least one curiosity about their world, but with physics it is certainly something that needs a fair amount of dedication, insight, and possibly some luck to raise the bar on understanding our universe.

Over time as things have become more well understood, other people have found ways to take and transform that into semester or year long courses that provide a very well condensed, concise, and engineered view of something that otherwise took hundreds of years to understand and develop.

With this said, it is not surprising that many people simply do not understand or "get it" straight away. When we taught the engineered, refined material we are very likely in our time as a student come across situations where we can't look at the material in a variety of perspectives (Feynman referred to this as 'Fragile Knowledge'). It usually takes someone that has been doing it for a decade or longer to know all of the intricacies of their subject which are often in some form at least, left out of curriculum.

So don't feel bad if you don't get it all straight away. Most people don't and even those who do go well in their coursework may find out later that their understanding was not as dense as they thought when they gain new insights, perspectives, and relationships in their working knowledge: most of us do when working on something for significant lengths of time.
 
  • #66
because is physics was easy... then it just wouldn't be fun anymore...
 
  • #67
I seriously think i got a 100 on the quiz today! lol so happy
 
  • #68
General_Sax said:
So, F=ma (a straight line provided that mass is constant) is more difficult to "understand" than it's implications. That's rich, because I'm not even sure what the implications of such a statement is (F=ma), but I (and basically any 14 year old) could solve for any variable 7 days from Sunday.

I think you're misunderstanding me. It's a description of physical phenomena.

When I do this thing to various other things, they move.

That's probably the most general and ambiguous qualitative understanding of Newton's Laws.

Expressing it a little better:

When I perform some action on an object, it acquires motion. Through experimentation, this motion depends on the "magnitude" of the action, the "size" of the object, etc.

That's a little more lucid. Still, the definitions of those terms are interrelated. That's why my quantum professor says such things when explaining some physics concepts, "The physics is easy. Unfortunately, we have to do deal with the mathematics."

All I'm saying is the very complicated mathematics used to very precisely describe physical phenomena can be vastly more difficult than merely understanding what happens at a qualitative level.
 
  • #70
theJorge551 said:
We all do, man. :smile: Glad to know I could help, and keep us posted!

to keep everyone posted on my journey through high school physics i got an A- for the first marking period! Too bad i did bad on my first quiz for the 2nd MP so I am in for another uphill climb. I have a big test tomorrow on momentum and collisions. It's extremely easy so I am confident i can get a good grade. Too bad I have 4 tests tomorrow as well ( why do teachers all give tests on the same day..lol)
 
  • #71
Not sure if I heard this in a movie or read it somewhere, but somehow, it just seems to fit:

Why is Physics so hard? Cause if it was easy then anybody could do it.
 
  • #72
My mechanics professor asked us how we know who is a physicist. He said it's the one who spends the most time looking at a problem.
 
  • #73
update: halfway through the 2nd marking period I had an A+ (98). Got a 41/50 on the last quiz so i dropped to a A (96) but hopefully with tomorrow's quiz which is on heat i can get back to an A+. Thanks for all the motivation guys.
 
  • #74
NeedsHelp1212 said:
Exactly, I have no problem solving for a variable. Too bad the problems don't simply give you the numbers needed to plug into the equation.

Perhaps you don't feel like expending any more mental effort than you have to, but you will "get" physics at a deeper level if you look beyond finding the numbers to plug into equations. For instance, learn /why/ the equations are true and don't take it on faith that, for instance, "distance traveled = (1/2)*acceleration*time^2 + (initial velocity)*time."
 
  • #75
How can you get an A+; surely an A should be the best grade? American education confuses me...

Anyway, I think if your main concern is that you got an A-/B+ when you really 'expect' an A, then you have nothing to worry about!
 
  • #76
cristo said:
How can you get an A+; surely an A should be the best grade? American education confuses me...

[...]

I've never taken a class in the U.S. where an A+ < 100%. I earned an A+ (105%) in English Literature, but that's because the instructor offered some extra credit. I've never had a math or science course that's even offered extra credit assignments. If one wants extra work, one can take an honors course, which I think is much more valuable than an A+.
 
  • #77
cristo said:
How can you get an A+; surely an A should be the best grade? American education confuses me...

Anyway, I think if your main concern is that you got an A-/B+ when you really 'expect' an A, then you have nothing to worry about!

Let me re-state I am in high school NOT college. In a typical american high school an A+ is in the range from a 97 to a 100. An A is in the range from a 93-96. An A- is a 90-92. A B+ is an 87-89, B is an 83-86, B- is an 80-82 and so forth until you reach an F.

And my main concern actually was that physics would get harder as the year progressed and my grade would drop lower and lower. Well as of this point the exact opposite has happened. I have looked ahead at future chapters and the topics seem kind of hard (mirrors and other "weird" physics topics- I am so used to physics being just about motion). Hopefully i can continue to understand the material!
 
  • #78
NeedsHelp1212 said:
Let me re-state I am in high school NOT college. In a typical american high school an A+ is in the range from a 97 to a 100.

[...]

I've never seen this, nor does it make sense to me. *shrug* :smile:
 
  • #79
My HS never did A+, not like I'd get them cept my computer classes.
 
  • #80
Shackleford said:
Well, physics is "easy," but the math required to do some physics problems is quite hard. In other words, solving particular problems involves solving very complicated mathematical equations.

I don't really agree with this. Math is not why physics is hard, but sometimes physics has quite complicated mathematics as well. Every single problem except maybe 2 that I solved this semester(University Physics 1) was not hard because of the math.
 
  • #81
I'm in hs now and we can't get A+'s wtf..
 
  • #82
lol are you guys serious? How does your grades then get converted to GPA? For us in regular classes (which physics is considered as a regular and is my only regular class, the rest being honors and AP which actually give you the chance to have a higher than 4 GPA). Anyway, a regular class with an A+ for us translates obviously into a 4.0. An A is a 3.7, A- is a 3.3 and so forth. Let says you are in AP history and get an A- (3.3). That really goes in as a 4.3 because the AP gives it a one point curve. I was under the impression all high schools do this and have A+'s but i guess not?!?
 
  • #83
hey everyone, i have midterms in this class tomorrow. Wish me luck! :smile: I have been studying all day. Once again thanks for all the encouragement and help I have gotten from this thread
 
  • #84
NeedsHelp1212 said:
hey everyone, i have midterms in this class tomorrow. Wish me luck! :smile: I have been studying all day. Once again thanks for all the encouragement and help I have gotten from this thread

Good luck!
 
  • #85
NeedsHelp1212 said:
hey everyone, i have midterms in this class tomorrow. Wish me luck! :smile: I have been studying all day. Once again thanks for all the encouragement and help I have gotten from this thread


You'll do wonderfully!
 
  • #86
nlsherrill said:
I don't really agree with this. Math is not why physics is hard, but sometimes physics has quite complicated mathematics as well. Every single problem except maybe 2 that I solved this semester(University Physics 1) was not hard because of the math.

It's not physics or math that's hard. What's hard is setting up the problem. You can run through disgustingly long and complicated integrals like they were 1+1, and still get knocked on your butt by physics math that is often simple arithmetic.

Physics is not a formula-based activity. You can't memorize your way through physics like you can with chemistry, biology and the like. You have to understand the conceptual difficulties in the problem, then translate that concept into another language: Mathematics.
 
  • #87
Angry Citizen said:
It's not physics or math that's hard. What's hard is setting up the problem. You can run through disgustingly long and complicated integrals like they were 1+1, and still get knocked on your butt by physics math that is often simple arithmetic.

Physics is not a formula-based activity. You can't memorize your way through physics like you can with chemistry, biology and the like. You have to understand the conceptual difficulties in the problem, then translate that concept into another language: Mathematics.

This is correct. I discovered this just last semester in my Classical Dynamics course with an exceptional physicist. We covered quite a bit of a material. He gave us the hardest problems from the newest Thornton and Marion book. The hardest part was just getting started on the problem, i.e. setting up the problem.
 
  • #88
Study harder..never give up
 
  • #89
Shackleford said:
This is correct. I discovered this just last semester in my Classical Dynamics course with an exceptional physicist. We covered quite a bit of a material. He gave us the hardest problems from the newest Thornton and Marion book. The hardest part was just getting started on the problem, i.e. setting up the problem.
Well setting up the problem is physics and mathematics. It's not as if you somehow set it up and *then* go do physics and maths. You can't just arbitrarily separate those parts/steps that make a whole.
 
  • #90
Ryker said:
Well setting up the problem is physics and mathematics. It's not as if you somehow set it up and *then* go do physics and maths. You can't just arbitrarily separate those parts/steps that make a whole.

How didn't you take that meaning from my post?
 
  • #91
Angry Citizen said:
Physics is not a formula-based activity. You can't memorize your way through physics like you can with chemistry, biology and the like. You have to understand the conceptual difficulties in the problem, then translate that concept into another language: Mathematics.

Your referring to Secondary school Biology and Chemistry, right?
 
  • #92
Shackleford said:
Mathematics is entirely arbitrary. It does not dictate physical phenomena. However, it's used by physicists as a language to describe physical phenomena quantitatively very precisely. Someone can understand Newton's Laws qualitatively but not be able to express it quantitatively. That's my distinction - a very fine one, I know.

Klockan3 said:
When doing physics problems the maths is physics, if you don't understand that maths then you don't understand the physics.

I agree with both of you simultaneously. :P

I actually think the higher the level of math, the easier math gets. It would have been nice to understand all the math when I took all of my physics classes in school.
 
  • #93
Angry Citizen said:
It's not physics or math that's hard. What's hard is setting up the problem. You can run through disgustingly long and complicated integrals like they were 1+1, and still get knocked on your butt by physics math that is often simple arithmetic.

Physics is not a formula-based activity. You can't memorize your way through physics like you can with chemistry, biology and the like. You have to understand the conceptual difficulties in the problem, then translate that concept into another language: Mathematics.

Yes, and generally this is fitting to a physics problem. Setting up the problem IS the physics. Setting it up is recognizing which physical laws are/are not conserved, where your limits extend, etc, and then developing a mathematical model to represent it. And this is why physics is hard, because you have to come up with a clever way to even get started on some problems.

I think we are on the same page, but in my opinion "setting up the problem" is the physics part of the problem.
 
  • #94
Shackleford said:
How didn't you take that meaning from my post?
I thought you agreed with the part of Angry Citizen's post that said
"It's not physics or math that's hard."
I guess I should've quoted him instead then.
nlsherrill said:
Yes, and generally this is fitting to a physics problem. Setting up the problem IS the physics. Setting it up is recognizing which physical laws are/are not conserved, where your limits extend, etc, and then developing a mathematical model to represent it. And this is why physics is hard, because you have to come up with a clever way to even get started on some problems.

I think we are on the same page, but in my opinion "setting up the problem" is the physics part of the problem.
And yeah, this is what I meant.
 
  • #95
Ryker said:
I thought you agreed with the part of Angry Citizen's post that said
I guess I should've quoted him instead then.
And yeah, this is what I meant.

Oh, sorry.

I was agreeing with
What's hard is setting up the problem.

Setting up the problem is math and physics.
 
  • #96
I tend to differentiate the three. Math, fundamentally, is the techniques used. Addition, subtraction, algebra, integration, differentiation, etc. Physics, to me, is the concepts involved. Problem-solving is not physics. For example, when computing force, math is the multiplication and addition/subtraction necessary to describe the problem, physics is the conceptual basis behind the problem (the various relations between concepts and the concepts themselves that tell you why you're calculating force in the first place), and 'setting up the problem' is essentially bridging the gap between the two. You're translating physics into math.

Just my perspective. Doesn't really matter.
 
  • #97
Angry Citizen said:
It's not physics or math that's hard. What's hard is setting up the problem. You can run through disgustingly long and complicated integrals like they were 1+1, and still get knocked on your butt by physics math that is often simple arithmetic.

Physics is not a formula-based activity. You can't memorize your way through physics like you can with chemistry, biology and the like. You have to understand the conceptual difficulties in the problem, then translate that concept into another language: Mathematics.
Maybe biology but sure as heck not chemistry (speaking about 2. grade/12. grade (17 year olds) level)

I definitely agree about your math/physics comment. Physics simply uses math as a language, so usually the math is fairly simple.

At first I had real problems adjusting to "thinking physics", but after a while I am OK with it and getting good grades.
 
  • #98
well I felt like i did OK. It was not easy but it was not terribly hard. Every multiple choice question was tricky in some way, and there was a couple that i had to guess on (these were not the math ones actually). For example, one of the questions had 3 boxes and said if all boxes were pulled with the same magnitude of force F on which box would the kinetic friction be the greatest? The least? And one of the boxes was being pushed horizontally, another was being pushed with an angle forward. So from those 2 the first one would have more friction b/c the x component on the 2nd one is obviously less. But I am confused with the 3rd box. The force was like coming down from the top left. It made no sense.

Another had a picture of a door and force of the same magnitude applied to different parts of the door. And you had to apply the concept of torque to rank in order from greatest to least in terms of torque. And i knew if its at a 90 degree angle (since u take into account sin 90) it would be at the most. Ohhhhhh wow, nvm... i forgot to take into account distance from the hinge...wow.

So yeah basically there was 25 multiple choice, 3 points each. And then 3 open ended worth a total of 25 points. I think i got all of the open ended right.
 
  • #99
For example, one of the questions had 3 boxes and said if all boxes were pulled with the same magnitude of force F on which box would the kinetic friction be the greatest? The least? And one of the boxes was being pushed horizontally, another was being pushed with an angle forward. So from those 2 the first one would have more friction b/c the x component on the 2nd one is obviously less. But I am confused with the 3rd box. The force was like coming down from the top left. It made no sense.

Use your definitions. Kinetic friction is dependent on four things: The mass of the object, the magnitude of local gravity conditions (little g), the coefficient of kinetic friction, and any extra force in the y direction. We know little g is 9.8 meters per second squared (assuming this question wasn't one of those alien planet questions). Do we know the masses of the objects? If not, are they all the same mass? Can we assume that all the coefficients of kinetic friction are the same?

From the problem definition, we know that one of the boxes has extra force in the y direction, while one of the boxes does not. The extra force in the y direction, depending on whether it worked with gravity (pushed down on the box) or against gravity (pulled up on the box), would affect the normal force acting on the box. Use the fact that force is a vector quantity to separate it into its x and y components. For the horizontal force, this is unnecessary because all the force is in the x direction. For the funny one at an angle, you need to separate it into its components using vector algebra.

So, if you have three boxes of equal mass (m1=m2=m3), all of the same material and on the same surface (μk1=μk2=μk3, or in other words all the coefficients of kinetic friction are the same), and they're all in the same gravity field (Earth's), then the only possible difference can come from the direction in which the equal force is applied. Thus, the box with the greatest kinetic friction is going to be the box whose force vector is directed downwards (with gravity, thereby increasing the acceleration, thus increasing the normal force, thus increasing the kinetic friction), and the one with the least kinetic friction is going to be the one whose force vector is directed upward (against gravity, thereby counteracting some of the acceleration, thus reducing the normal force, thus reducing the kinetic friction).

Hope this helps.

Another had a picture of a door and force of the same magnitude applied to different parts of the door. And you had to apply the concept of torque to rank in order from greatest to least in terms of torque. And i knew if its at a 90 degree angle (since u take into account sin 90) it would be at the most. Ohhhhhh wow, nvm... i forgot to take into account distance from the hinge...wow.

Well, think of it this way. Have you ever tried to open a door by pushing near its hinge? Takes a lot more force, huh. Just use that intuition in physics. You've done physics for many years without even realizing it.
 
  • #100
so the one directed downwards has the most kinetic friction? That's what i put! I kind of figured just using logic if your "pushing" down on something there will be more friction.

For the door one I know exactly what you mean but honestly it was a lot more complex because at one point there was multiple forces acting just at different angles. Well not really complex now but what can you do now

And i screwed up on another problem after someone told me what they did. It's so easy too. They gave you the change in velocity (the car was going West) and the time. So it asked for the acceleration. Obviously just divide the change and without thinking i put 10 m/s^2 West. My friend's right though; since the car slowed down (thats what the problem stated) the acceleration would be in the East direction right? Now i remember that was one of the answer choices. Wow already down to a 94... no way i got an A
 

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