Why is saxophone growling produced by modulation of the sound waves?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of saxophone growling, particularly focusing on the modulation of sound waves produced when playing the saxophone and singing simultaneously. Participants explore the underlying mechanisms, including non-linear interactions and the role of the reed, while examining both theoretical and practical aspects of this sound production technique.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe saxophone growling as a result of amplitude modulation, suggesting that the interaction between the singer's voice and the saxophone reed creates subharmonics.
  • Others propose that the reed acts as a non-linear element, similar to a switching diode, which introduces even harmonics and alters the sound produced by the instrument.
  • A few participants argue that growling may be perceived as a linear beat frequency between the vocal sound and the saxophone's fundamental frequency, although this view is challenged by spectrogram evidence showing distinct frequencies.
  • Some contributions highlight the importance of varying the intensity of both singing and playing to observe the modulation effects, indicating that stronger inputs may enhance the non-linear interactions.
  • There are mentions of impedance mismatches between the bell of the saxophone and the external environment, which could influence sound reflection and resonance.
  • Participants express uncertainty about why singing modulates the reed vibration, with comparisons made to other instruments like the flute, which do not exhibit the same effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the mechanisms behind saxophone growling, with no consensus reached on the exact nature of the modulation or the role of non-linearity. Participants express differing opinions on whether the growling effect is primarily due to amplitude modulation, linear beat frequencies, or other factors.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the non-linear dynamics involved and the specific conditions under which growling occurs. There are references to spectrogram measurements and theoretical models that remain unresolved in the context of the discussion.

  • #91
Baluncore said:
integer harmonics,
An interesting term and brought in here to maintain the illusion of correctness, maybe. It could make an interesting (?) topic for another post.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #92
sophiecentaur said:
NTL2009 said:
But I think that in most cases, these slight variations from are just accepted,
You seem to be implying that the 'slight variations' are not a good thing. I would say that they are what distinguishes a 'good' and a 'poor' instrument. ....

A point that seems to have been missed in this discussion ...
I'm not trying to make any statement at all (in this thread) about what is 'good' or 'bad' (though I do agree with you in the musical realm).

Maybe I'm misreading this whole thread, but I thought OP was just looking for the physics behind what produces a tone that is lower in frequency than either the clarinet tone or the singing tone? Good or bad aren't a part of that.
 
  • #93
NTL2009 said:
Good or bad aren't a part of that.
Of course not. My point was that the model in the attempted explanation is flawed if you assume harmonics and that you can easily detect audibly that departure by the difference between the sound of instruments and simple 'synthesised' sounds.

There should be serious caveats attached when inappropriate terms are used in an explanation. Approximations can be relevant and need to be justified properly - or at least mentioned.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
9K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K