Why is the electric potential equation incorrect in this paper?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the validity of an equation for electric potential presented in a paper, specifically addressing the use of complex exponentials to represent sinusoidal time dependence. Participants explore the implications of using real versus imaginary components in the context of electric potential and its derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the equation \(\Phi(\textbf{x},t)=\Phi(\textbf{x})e^{i\omega t}\) and suggests it should instead be \(\Phi(\textbf{x},t)=Im(\Phi(\textbf{x})e^{i\omega t})\).
  • Another participant defends the use of imaginary exponentials, stating it is a common practice that simplifies mathematical manipulations, with the understanding that the real or imaginary part must be taken at the end for physical observables.
  • A participant challenges the earlier claim by noting that taking the time derivative of the potential leads to an \(i\) term, which would not appear if the potential were expressed as purely real.
  • One participant emphasizes that electric potential is a real quantity and discusses the generalization to complex exponentials, explaining the process of returning to real functions through the extraction of real or imaginary parts.
  • Another participant mentions that conventions in physics typically favor the use of real parts over imaginary ones.
  • Participants acknowledge the use of both real and imaginary parts in their examples, indicating a preference based on context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of using complex exponentials for representing electric potential, with some supporting the practice and others questioning its validity in this specific context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the original equation versus the proposed alternative.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing debate about the implications of using complex functions to represent real physical quantities, particularly in relation to the mathematical treatment of derivatives and the interpretation of results. Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between real and imaginary components in physical applications.

Apteronotus
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In a paper I am reading it states that
since the electric potential (and field) have sinusoidal time dependence, then
[tex]\Phi(\textbf{x},t)=\Phi(\textbf{x})e^{i\omega t}[/tex]​

Why would this equation be true?

Why shoudnt the equations read
[tex]\Phi(\textbf{x},t)=Im(\Phi(\textbf{x})e^{i\omega t})[/tex]​

Thanks in advance for your replies.
 
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Using imaginary exponentials to describe oscillatory or wave motion of real quantities is an extremely common practice, because it simplifies many mathematical manipulations.

It's so common that most authors (except in introductory textbooks) assume that the reader knows that you have to take either the real part or the imaginary part at the end of a calculation, to get the actual physically observable behavior.
 
Thank you for your reply jtbell.

I'm not entirely sure that your statement is true in this particular case. Since upon taking the derivative of the potential with respect to [tex]t[/tex] the author arrives at:

[tex] <br /> \frac{\partial\Phi(x,t)}{\partial t}(x,t)=i\omega\Phi(x)e^{i\omega t}<br /> [/tex]

Had he assumed

[tex] \Phi(x,t)=Im(\Phi(x)e^{i\omega t})[/tex]

or

[tex] \Phi(x,t)=Re(\Phi(x)e^{i\omega t})[/tex]

the [tex]i[/tex] term would not be appearing in the answer to the partial derivative.

I am wondering if there is any physics that states that ...
a sinusoidal time dependent field can be represented by a complex function.
 
Electric potential is a real quantity, so it must actually be either a (real) sine or cosine. This method generalizes it to a complex exponential to simplify some of the math. At the end you "un-generalize" it by taking the real or imaginary part depending on whether you started out with a cosine or a sine. This procedure is so common that few authors spell out all the steps explicitly.

Starting with a real function in the form of a sine, for example, and making all the steps explicit:

[tex]\Phi = A \sin (\omega t)[/tex]

[tex]\Phi = I am (A e^{i \omega t})[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d \Phi}{dt} = I am (i \omega A e^{i \omega t})[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d \Phi}{dt} = I am (i \omega A (\cos (\omega t) + i \sin (\omega t)))[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d \Phi}{dt} = I am (i \omega A \cos (\omega t) - \omega A \sin (\omega t))[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d \Phi}{dt} = \omega A \cos (\omega t)[/tex]

In this case people often say simply, "let [itex]\Phi = A e^{i \omega t}[/itex]". This is sloppy and incorrect, strictly speaking, but people do it anyway.
 
Note also that, by convention, physics and electrical engineering texts usually use Real parts rather than Imaginary.
 
Right, I usually start with cosines so I use the real part. I did this example with the imaginary part because the first post used it.
 
Yes jtbell,
I see now what you alluded to earlier. I took quite a stumble on this. Thank you very very much.
 

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