Why P is proportional to epsilon*E?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Trave11er
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Proportional
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between polarization in dielectric materials and the applied electric field, specifically exploring why polarization is considered linearly proportional to the electric field under certain conditions. The scope includes theoretical explanations and conceptual clarifications related to dielectric behavior and electric dipole moments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the linear proportionality of polarization to the electric field, suggesting that this relationship is an approximation valid only for small electric fields.
  • One participant notes that polarization depends not only on the current electric field but also on previous fields and locations, introducing the concepts of temporal and spatial dispersion.
  • Another participant suggests that in an idealized isotropic medium, the induced dipole moments can be approximated as proportional to the electric field for small values, using a Taylor expansion to justify this linearity.
  • There is a mention of non-linear optics, indicating that the relationship becomes non-linear at higher field strengths.
  • A conceptual model is proposed where a dielectric material is viewed as a collection of tiny spheres, each responding independently to the electric field, leading to a cumulative polarization effect.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the existence of a theory that definitively states the proportionality, emphasizing that observations suggest an approximation rather than a strict linear relationship.
  • A suggestion is made to compare the field strength within an atom to the external applied field to determine when the linear approximation is valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the relationship between polarization and the electric field. There are multiple competing views regarding the linearity of this relationship and the conditions under which it holds.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the assumptions made about the dielectric material, the potential influence of non-linear effects at higher field strengths, and the need for a clearer definition of the conditions under which the linear approximation is applicable.

Trave11er
Messages
71
Reaction score
0
Why is polarization in dielectric material linearly proportional to the E-field. T.y.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Do you mean why is proportional or why there is an epsilon there?
 
Why proportional
 
Trave11er said:
Why is polarization in dielectric material linearly proportional to the E-field. T.y.

That's an approximation in the case of small values of E. Even in the linear case, the polarization does not only depend on the electric field at the same time and co-ordinate but in principle on all previous times and other locations. One speaks of temporal and spatial dispersion as these effects are responsible for the refractive index to be a function of frequency.
The regime of strong fields where non-linear terms in E become important is called non-linear optics.
 
Ok, but say we have some idealized isotropic medium can you explain why dipole moments induced will be proportional to the electric field if it small, please?
 
Leaving aside some special materials like ferroelectrics, the induced dipole moment will be a smooth function of E and you can use a Taylor expansion in E and keep only the first term.
In quantum mechanics this corresponds to using only 1st order pertrubation theory for the calculation of the dipole moment.
 
why dipole moments induced will be proportional to the electric field if it small, please?

I don't know of any theory that says it is proportional...what we observe is what DrDu has posted...its an approximation...and in fact the exact relationship is non linear.
 
If you are looking for a conceptual explanation, here you go. Approximate a dielectric material as a large collection of tiny spheres packed together. Assume each sphere is small enough that the applied electric field across its interior is constant. Then each sphere responds independently to the distinct applied electric field its feels at its center. It is a fairly straightforward calculation to show in general that a dielectric sphere placed in a previously uniform electric field will respond as if it were a perfect electric dipole at its center pointing in the direction of the applied field, i.e. the material response field is the same as that due to a aligned dipole. Finding the total material response field of an extended object then just involves adding up (integrating) all the induced dipole fields of all the little spheres. The material's response field therefore ends up being essentially the polarization of the material, which by definition is the average dipole density.
 
Another way to learn when the linear approximation is sufficient would be to compare the typical field strength in an atom due to the nucleus with the external field strength of the applied field.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K