Why photons can't afford more than light speed ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why photons cannot exceed the speed of light, exploring concepts from special relativity, the nature of space-time, and the properties of massless particles. Participants examine the implications of various equations and theories related to the speed of light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that photons are not limited by the equation E=mc², while others argue that all particles, including photons, must adhere to this equation in some form.
  • There is a discussion about the applicability of the momentum equation p = γmv for massive bodies, with some suggesting that massless particles like photons require a different approach, specifically p = E/c.
  • One participant mentions the relationship between wavelength and frequency in light, noting that they are inversely related by the constant c, which leads to the conclusion that the velocity of light is c.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the constancy of the speed of light is supported by experimental evidence rather than being derived from other properties.
  • Maxwell's equations are referenced as a means to demonstrate that light travels at speed c, with a participant providing a formula involving permittivity and magnetic constants.
  • There is a suggestion that Maxwell's realization of the constant speed of light influenced Einstein's development of relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between photons and the equation E=mc², as well as the implications of various equations for massless particles. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their explanations and the complexity of deriving the speed of light from Maxwell's equations, indicating that further clarification may be needed.

oneat
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Why photons can't afford more than light speed?
They are not limited by E=mc^2.
 
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It is the nature of space-time. Read up about Special Relativity, then come back to the question.
 
oneat said:
They are not limited by E=mc^2.
No, all particles obey this equation. Even photons. Obviously you cannot use the usual gamme factor.
 
But that equation is not even what shows that normal matter can't go at light speed.

It is shown with:
[tex]p = \gamma m v[/tex]
But, this is the equation for bodies with mass only and it shows they cannot reach c.

For massless particles (photons) the above equation does not apply, you must use this instead:
[tex]p = \frac{E}{c}[/tex]
which doesn't have the same problem. Furthermore, we know that for waves the wavelength * frequency = velocity of the wave, but for light the wavelength and frequency are inversely related by the constant c, so when you find wavelength*frequency you get that they equal "c", which should be the volocity, so v=c.

I'm just sort of beating around the bush though, there are much better explanations. I know there is a way to derive it from maxwell's equations.
Sorry I can't give a better explanation but that is why I didn't respond to this thread right away, I waited a day.
 
The fact that light always has speed c, relative to any observer, is a result of experimental evidence. It is not proven from other properties, other properties are derived from that observation.
 
you can show that light travels at c with maxwells equations
c= 1/(sqrt(eq))
where e= permittivity constant
q= magnetic constant
and when maxwell came across this result , he realized that this was always constant no matter how fast you were going , and this was always in the back of his mind ,
And Einstein used this fact to start creating relativity ,
 

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