Why speed of the molecules is bigger the less they weigh?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter aaaa202
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Molecules Speed
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the mass of gas molecules and their average speed, particularly in the context of kinetic energy and statistical mechanics. Participants explore the underlying principles that explain why lighter molecules tend to move faster than heavier ones, referencing concepts from statistical physics and kinetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the average kinetic energy of gas molecules is given by Ekin=½kT, questioning the deeper understanding behind the relationship between molecular weight and speed.
  • Another participant explains that kinetic energy being equal to half the mass times the velocity squared implies that lighter molecules must have a greater velocity to maintain the same kinetic energy.
  • A different participant expresses interest in understanding why the average kinetic energy is consistently 3/2kT, suggesting that this may require knowledge from statistical mechanics.
  • One participant sketches an argument involving the dynamics of gas molecules and their interactions with container walls, discussing how temperature relates to mean kinetic energy and the need for a defined temperature scale.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interest in the topic, with some focusing on the mathematical relationships while others seek deeper conceptual insights. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the fundamental reasons behind the observed phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of deriving the relationship between kinetic energy and temperature, indicating that a complete understanding may depend on further study in statistical mechanics and thermodynamics.

aaaa202
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
2
In statistical physics we have for an ideal gas about the average kinetic energy for its molecules:

Ekin=½kT

Now in my book this is derived using the ideal gas law as an experimental fact, but that does not really help you get a deeper understanding, does it? I'm assuming that this can be derived from statistical mechanics.

I wonna ask the following?
What is the intuition behind, that the speed of the molecules is bigger the less they weigh? This follows from the fact that every molecule regardless of mass, apparently on average have the same kinetic energy.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Kinetic energy is equal to half the mass times the velocity squared. Therefore, to have the same kinetic energy with something less massive, you need a greater velocity.

That is if I understood you properly.
 
well I was more interested in the deeper reason behind why <Ekin> is always 3/2kT, but maybe I should just wait with that till statistical mechanics.
 
Sketch of an argument.
(1) You can show by a dynamics argument (See Jeans: Kinetic theory of gases) that a gas will exchange energy in collisions with its container walls, unless mean KE of gas molecules is the same as that of wall molecules. (2) But macroscopically it's temperature difference that controls heat transfer. (3) So two gases with the same mean KE have the same temperature. (4) But this doesn't show that mean KE is proportional to temperature. (5) Nothing can show this until we have defined a temperature scale. (6) the fundamental scale is the thermodynamic scale (of which the kelvin scale is the practical expression) which is defined in terms of heat taken in and given out in a Carnot cycle. (7) By taking an ideal gas through a Carnot cycle (in a thought-experiment), we can show that the kelvin temperature of the gas is proportional to PV. (8) Kinetic theory shows that PV is proportional to the mean KE of the molecules.

For a lot of elementary purposes, we can down the argument by defining an ideal gas scale of temperature such that T on this scale is proportional to the mean KE of the molecules. But at some stage, if you take Physics further, you're going to need to know how to establish the identity between the ideal gas scale and the thermodynamic scale.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
8K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K