Why we use relative permeability

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of relative permeability in electromagnetism, particularly in the context of transformers and the theoretical implications of using absolute permeability. Participants explore the reasons for preferring relative permeability over absolute permeability and the significance of these concepts in practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why relative permeability is used if absolute permeability exists, suggesting that it may be easier to use.
  • Others express concern about the theoretical implications of using absolute permeability and inquire about its limitations.
  • One participant notes that relative permeability is derived from the microscopic structure of materials and is an effective physical property.
  • Another participant explains that relative permeability indicates how much the magnetic field in a core material is enhanced compared to the applied magnetic field, highlighting the role of absolute permeability as a combination of vacuum permeability and relative permeability.
  • There is a mention of the absence of vacuum permeability in c.g.s. units, which some participants find simplifies the relationship between magnetic field strength and magnetization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of using relative versus absolute permeability, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of permeability and the potential confusion arising from different unit systems (SI vs. c.g.s.). The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding regarding the theoretical foundations of these concepts.

janu203
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Why we use relative permeability if we have absolute
permeability in electromagnetism?
 
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Because it's easier ?
Perhaps you want to show some examples where you think different ?
 
BvU said:
Because it's easier ?
Perhaps you want to show some examples where you think different ?
I am more concerned regarding the theoretical aspect. Why cannot we just take absolute permeability of any material? In fact i have started reading about transformers and there i found relative permeability.
 
Theoretical aspect ? Is ##\vec B = \mu \vec H## absolute enough ?
janu203 said:
Why we use relative permeability
who is 'we ' ?
janu203 said:
Why cannot we just take absolute permeability of any material?
Who say we can not ?
janu203 said:
In fact i have started reading about transformers and there i found relative permeability.
I can't guess where you found this. Oherwise I could try to explain... Please tell us where.
 
Well, while permittivity and permeability of the vacuum, ##\epsilon_0## and ##\mu_0## are mere conversion constants from unnatural SI units to natural units, ##\epsilon_r## and ##\mu_r## are effective physical properties of the material, derivable from the microscopic structure of it in terms of linear-response theory.
 
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The relative permeability ## \mu_r ## gives the factor that the magnetic field in the core material is increased by over the applied magnetic field from the current in the conductor coils of a solenoid or transformer. The absolute permeability ## \mu=\mu_o \mu_r ## has an extra factor of ## \mu_o ## in it, (in SI units), which obscures this simple result. ## \\ ## In c.g.s. units, ## B=\mu H=\mu_r H ##, this problem is absent, because ## B=H+4 \pi M ##, without any ## \mu_o ## in front of the ## H ##.
 
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