News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[WarPhalange]

I don't think Barack Obama can play the "Your name sounds funny" card.

 

[Gokul43201]

Honestly, school of Journalism from Idaho?....What award winning journalists ever came out of that place?

Here you go Cyrus.

Bza63nnqiKA[/youtube] I rest my case! :biggrin:

 

[Gokul43201]

Evo, looks like you're going to love this one as well.

In 1996, Palin endorsed Pat Buchanan in 1996, ran fund-raisers for him and was his Alaska state director.

Buchanan loves her right back!

U9rZkJfKoEU[/youtube] Some quotes ...r.[/quote] (Right from the Beginning, p. 341)

 

[wildman]

Yay! All the better to do the shoppin', cookin' and cleanin' with.

Mexicans are the real liberators. We don't have to clean the house or weed the garden.

 

[Astronuc]

I think there will be more heard on the subject of her last baby. The rumor mill is likely already working that subject overtime right now.

Yeah - and that is so stupid.

Apparently the latest rumor is that Palin's youngest is her daughter's daughter.
Sarah Palin hit by internet rumours over fifth child

If Mrs Palin, a conservative mother of five, ever doubted that landing on a national presidential ticket would open her to the harshest of spotlights and smear tactics, she also awoke yesterday to utterly unfounded internet rumours that her fifth child, born in April with Down’s Syndrome, was actually her 17-year-old daughter’s.

The Times article does mention some other important issues, e.g. Palin campaigned as governor in favor of the 'Bridge to Nowhere', then as governor, she changed her position. Of course, the Republicans/conservatives love to point out flip-flops by Obama or Kerry. But that is entirely disingenous, since Republican politicians are just as likely to flip-flop.

When she made her debut speech on Friday she immediately touted her success in killing off the infamous “Bridge to Nowhere”, which would have connected Gravina Island with Ketchikan international airport, a project that had become a nationwide symbol of the wasteful, pork-barrel spending that Mr McCain has made a cornerstone of his campaign.

Yet in a first unsettling revelation – which the McCain camp will hope does not become a pattern – the Anchorage Daily News reported yesterday that when she ran for governor Mrs Palin campaigned on a “build the bridge” platform. The newspaper, in a reference to John Kerry’s alleged “flip-flopping” in the 2004 presidential campaign, said: “Palin was for the Bridge before she was against it.”

Even her mother-in-law, Faye Palin, who said she was still thinking of voting for Mr Obama, sounded sceptical. She said: “I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket, other than she’s a woman and a conservative.”

A lot of people are viewing the selection of Palin as nothing more than a bid to attract women, conservatives and evangelicals - rather than her being selected based on qualification.

Although she made a clear bid for suburban mothers and disaffected Hillary Clinton supporters on Friday, her choice has thrilled and energised conservative Republicans and evangelicals, solving in a stroke Mr McCain’s struggle to motivate his base, whose turnout will be crucial in battleground states such as Ohio and Michigan.

This is a rather surreal election year.

 

[Evo]

There will be a Vice-Presidential Debate held at Washington University in St louis On Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8pm.

I can't wait for that!

 

[Astronuc]

There will be a Vice-Presidential Debate held at Washington University in St louis On Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8pm.

I can't wait for that!

I wonder how much will be foreign policy/international relations vs domestic, and issues like energy, women's rights, economic policy, environmental protection, separation of church and state, . . . .

Any info on the moderator(s)/panelists?

 

[LowlyPion]

This is a rather surreal election year.

I wonder if it is too late to copyright all this for a screen play?

All we need now are a couple of Phil Graham type gaffes from Palin to really spike the recipe.

 

[Evo]

I wonder how much will be foreign policy/international relations vs domestic, and issues like energy, women's rights, economic policy, environmental protection, separation of church and state, . . . .

Any info on the moderator(s)/panelists?

Gwen Ifill, a longtime correspondent and moderator for public broadcasting programs The NewsHour and Washington Week, has been selected to moderate the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate at Washington University in St. Louis, the CPD has announced.

http://debate.wustl.edu/media.php

 

[Astronuc]

"Soulmates"? How John McCain and Sarah Palin differ on the issues
http://timesonline.typepad.com/uselections/2008/09/john-mccain-say.html

Hmmmm.

Big names absent from John McCain's Republican convention
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4648652.ece

The party [GOP / RNC] meeting here is demoralised and divided. There is a pro-business lobby, an anti-immigration lobby, the Religious Right and a libertarian streak that is embodied by Ron Paul, the cranky former presidential candidate.

. . . .

The absence of President Bush and Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, on storm duty is a different matter. They are not the only Republicans choosing to stay away.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California, is also indicating that he will not be at the podium for a primetime speaking slot tonight if his state’s budget crisis remains unresolved.

And at least ten incumbent senators have announced that they are not coming, including Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar who have been noticeably kind to Barack Obama’s campaign in recent weeks. . . .

Now that's interesting.

Polls that show that Mr Obama got a bounce of perhaps seven points from the Democratic convention do not fully take account of the energy surrounding him as 84,000 people at Invesco Field stadium and a record-breaking TV audience of up to 40 million watched his speech.

Conservative MP Simon Burns says: I’m a Tory Democrat
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4639738.ece

 

[LowlyPion]

I don't think Barack Obama can play the "Your name sounds funny" card.

I rather think you miss the point. It's not the names themselves ... so much. (Granted the last child is named Trig Van Paxson Palin? Maybe Van Halen is one of their favs?) But rather I was remarking on the process. Naming your kids for nouns that may pop into your head at whatever moment the children are born is a pretty stream of consciousness approach, I'd have to say. I would hope that the business of the country would be conducted with a bit more consideration.

The name Barack Obama may be unusual in American genealogies relating apparently to foreign origin, but he is named for his father and that is certainly a more traditional approach to choosing names.

 

[Evo]

This is someone that is ready for a V-P position? She laughs at insulting remarks aimed at someone Palin disagrees with?

GOP VP pick Sarah Palin laughs at cancer surviving senator being called a "*****"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydrUnBZE

Palin's responses on radio talk show very unbecoming

The governor's appearance on KWHL's "The Bob and Mark Show" last week is plain and simple one of the most unprofessional, childish and inexcusable performances I've ever seen from a politician.

Anchorage DJ Bob Lester unleashed a vicious, mean-spirited, poisonous attack on Senate President Lyda Green last week while our governor was live on the air with him.

When we played the tape on my show the day after it happened, we received 130 calls. Even some Palinbots were disgusted.

The Daily News posted the recording on its Web site and it fired up bloggers.

The Fairbanks Daily News-Miner editorial writers demanded the governor apologize. The Juneau and Ketchikan papers also ran the editorial.

The Daily News opinion page addressed the governor's gaffe. They wrote "She came off looking immature herself, almost high-schoolish. It was conduct unbecoming a governor."

It was conduct unbecoming a human being, never mind a governor.

The governor's office eventually tried to spin the public relations disaster, releasing a statement reading, "Governor Palin was caught off guard by Bob Lester's reference to Senate President Lyda Green."

I don't buy it. Early on in the conversation before Palin started to crack up, Lester referred to Sen. Green as a jealous woman and a cancer. Palin, who knows full well Lyda Green is a cancer survivor, didn't do what any decent person would do, say, "Bob, that's going too far."

But as the conversation moved on, Lester intensified his attack on Green.

Lester questioned Green's motherhood, asking Palin if the senator cares about her own kids. Palin laughs.

Then Lester clearly sets the stage for what he is about to say by warning his large audience and Palin. He says, "Governor you can't say this but I will, Lyda Green is a cancer and a b----." Palin laughs for the second time.

Continued...

http://www.adn.com/opinion/comment/story/295464.html

 

[Astronuc]

Unbelieveable! Palin should have ended that immediately - but to chuckle at those comments!

Pretty sad.

What was McCain thinking?

 

[Gokul43201]

Unbelieveable! Palin should have ended that immediately - but to chuckle at those comments!

Pretty sad.

What was McCain thinking?

They're hardly much worse than the kinds of comments (or "jokes", as McCain might call them) that McCain has made about women...but that's a matter for another thread.

 

[turbo]

Just scanning Yahoo! news for Gustav updates and found this. Bristol Palin is pregnant and is due in December and intends to marry the father of her child.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_daughter;_ylt=Ag3OPrChMXKs6qteNy113Jis0NUE

 

[LowlyPion]

This is someone that is ready for a V-P position? She laughs at insulting remarks aimed at someone Palin disagrees with?

This kind of sensitivity will be an excellent way to deal with Putin and Ahmadinejad.

My guess is the only real foreign policy experience she has is with Siberian Eskimos.

 

[LowlyPion]

Just scanning Yahoo! news for Gustav updates and found this. Bristol Palin is pregnant and is due in December and intends to marry the father of her child.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_daughter;_ylt=Ag3OPrChMXKs6qteNy113Jis0NUE

I don't know ... 5 months ... 4 months ...? Pretty dicey differences and difficult to tell. So long as the story can be pushed off past November is what it looks like to me. I wonder whether she will be made to answer - personally and on the record that Trig is hers?

So evidently the family values oriented Heath-Palin's are not so fundamentalist that they don't believe in pre-marital sex, though they don't do birth control?

 

[Cyrus]

Just scanning Yahoo! news for Gustav updates and found this. Bristol Palin is pregnant and is due in December and intends to marry the father of her child.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_daughter;_ylt=Ag3OPrChMXKs6qteNy113Jis0NUE

This lady and her family is all f'ed up...jesus christo.

 

[edward]

I don't know ... 5 months ... 4 months ...? Pretty dicey differences and difficult to tell. So long as the story can be pushed off past November is what it looks like to me. I wonder whether she will be made to answer - personally and on the record that Trig is hers?

So evidently the family values oriented Heath-Palin's are not so fundamentalist that they don't believe in pre-marital sex, though they don't do birth control?

Fundamentalists teach abstinence only and it fundamentally doesn't work.

 

[mheslep]

If McCain's intent was to get more women voters he has failed miserably.
http://www.now.org/press/08-08/08-29.html

Because NOW says so? There quite a bit removed from all women voters. If you show me a NOW member that supported McCain prior to his VP selection and later dumped him then you have a point.

 

[mheslep]

... Who is going to nurture that kid? Nannies?

Todd Palin?

 

[Gokul43201]

I wonder whether she will be made to answer - personally and on the record that Trig is hers?

This is pathetic and ridiculous. I hope she gives anyone asking for such a testimony the diplomatic equivalent of the finger.

 

[Evo]

Because NOW says so? There quite a bit removed from all women voters. If you show me a NOW member that supported McCain prior to his VP selection and later dumped him then you have a point.

mheslep, one big issue has been that McCain was hoping to pick up disgruntled Clinton supporters, feminists, this looks like he's not very likely to pick up many. This is not about him losing existing female voters, although I read an article about that just this morning, but just an opinion in an article. I'm sure polls will show if it's taken away women that were planning to vote for him.

 

[chasely]

This is pathetic and ridiculous. I hope she gives anyone asking for such a testimony the diplomatic equivalent of the finger.

I believe the equivalent would be something to the effect of releasing the delivery room photos.

So far, I see McCain's pick of Palin to be hurting his campaign, but we'll need to wait a few weeks to see what the overall effect is.

 

[Evo]

This is so sad about Palin's daughter. I hope the child isn't being forced into getting married in order to save face. The last thing I would want for my child if she got pregnant in her teens (which happilly neither of mine did) would be 1) force her to have the child 2)force her to marry the father.

Now maybe her daughter wants both of these things, no telling what can go through the mind of a 17 year old.

I agree it's a personal matter for her daughter. Just like getting an abortion is a personal matter and public opinion and government should not be part of that decision.

Palin knew this would come out and that her daughter would be subjected to this. That's why some people turn down high profile public office, they care more about their family than power. I wonder how long they were planning to try to hide it from the public?

 

[Cyrus]

Well, maybe the baby comes out back and then they can recapture some voters.

Then Obamas screwed.

 

[LowlyPion]

This is pathetic and ridiculous. I hope she gives anyone asking for such a testimony the diplomatic equivalent of the finger.

Actually I don't see that it is quite as detestable as you apparently do. Rude perhaps, but if she was really astute she would understand the importance of laying such issues to rest.

I think probity in public officials is a fundamental expectation and I would be satisfied with her statement that it was specifically her child because the penalties for lying are far greater than any fallout for any unfortunate fact associated with the constitution of her family.

On the one hand it is indeed her family's business and not mine at a personal level, except in her case she now represents herself as a family values candidate which makes it the country's business just what those family values are. Public figures have little privacy rights, most especially if they would make public the facts of their personal situations as a means to power in public matters. I think the rumors are unfortunate, but troubling, and they should be put to rest by direct statement and not by this latest indirect inference - that explicitly denies nothing.

Her acting as you would suggest would be far more troubling to me insofar as laying the matter to rest. This is the way that those harboring guilt behave, not those with nothing to hide, someone aspiring to a position she has accepted by becoming a nominee of the Republican Party. I would trade being seen as rude in the asking, for the affirmation of her probity, if she simply confirmed.

Besides it's little more detestable than the demands for Obama's birth records which anyone can get by direct application in Honolulu.

 

[Art]

As I said in the Obama thread it is incumbent on the accusers to provide proof of their allegations. The burden of proof does not lie on the accused to show the falsity of every scurrilous accusation thrown their way.

 

[LowlyPion]

As I said in the Obama thread it is incumbent on the accusers to provide proof of their allegations. The burden of proof does not lie on the accused to show the falsity of every scurrilous accusation thrown their way.

Unfortunately failing to respond breathes life into allegations that gives them currency regardless of the presumptive standards applied in legal cases. You should be aware that civil cases only rely on a preponderance of the likelihood that something is true, not the more stringent beyond a shadow of doubt standard for criminal conviction.

The court of public opinion seemingly operates on looser standards still.

 

[turbo]

As I said in the Obama thread it is incumbent on the accusers to provide proof of their allegations. The burden of proof does not lie on the accused to show the falsity of every scurrilous accusation thrown their way.

The purpose of disinformation campaigns (swift-boating, smears, etc) is to hype up the already-committed people, who will not bother to dig up the back-story or do any fact-checking, and will pass the lies on as if they were truth. Political dirty tricks do not play by any ethical rules, nor do they have to adhere to what we might expect as a "standard of proof" even in very loose non-scientific fields. In fact, the less-believable the claim, the more tenaciously the faithful hold them. Have you not gotten a forwarded email from someone you know claiming that Obama's view are the same as his Christian pastor of ~20 years and then gotten another forwarded email from that same person claiming that Obama is a Muslim? Logical consistency has little place in the minds of people who love political attacks.